Scrutineering - or the lack of?

5055 Views 49 Replies 32 Participants Last post by Tropsrotom, Nov 16, 2005

rallyaddict

Discussion Starter · Oct 21, 2005

Are we currently in a situation where it is easier to run illegal cars than it has been in the past? With the advent of technology to rallying is it easier than ever for people to bend the rules? I remember in the past it was common practice to ‘strip’ engines at post event scrutiny and measure for capacity/ cam profiles etc. This does not seem to be carried out as frequently anymore (or a least I haven’t heard of it) I know dump valves have always been an obvious choice to tamper with, but how can we know engine internals have not also been changed. I have been a spectator on many events and there is a visible difference between the power output of supposedly similar cars (group N in particular). I am not well versed in what exactly can be done but having talked to people in the know they are saying that illegal cars are commonplace. They have also suggested that some scrutineers are not up to speed with the latest technology and this is very understandable as they are not motorsport engineers. Is there an onus/legal obligation on scrutineers/governing bodies to reimburse competitors who have had there engines stripped and found to be compliant within the rules and if so is this one of the reasons why more checks aren’t carried? Can anyone fill me in on what exactly is the rule at the moment?

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half bull half hiefer

· #2 · Oct 21, 2005

benders

Originally posted by rallyaddict
Are we currently in a situation where it is easier to run illegal cars than it has been in the past? With the advent of technology to rallying is it easier than ever for people to bend the rules?

yes

:barf::barf:

Darren Harvey

· #3 · Oct 21, 2005

This is going to cause a stir i bet:laugh::laugh:

half bull half hiefer

· #4 · Oct 21, 2005

bet it gets deleted if thw rong thing/person is mentioned

most of us kniow whos up to it anywys but im sayingg no more :roll::roll::roll::roll:

1117

· #5 · Oct 21, 2005

Ah sure life is all about cheating-we would get nowhere without it. Cheating the tax man, cheating at exams, cheating on our partners, cheating at cards, cheating at cheating, cheating on the luas, illegal reccies-heard an intersting conversation at the galway rally between two competitors and how.....woops, better say nothing as I will only get dogs abuse for being nosey and listening in on other peoples conversations. WRC Rally cars are only supposed to put out 300 BHP but we all know its more. Even my Golf puts out 150 even though its rated at 140-is my insurance company being cheated-I hope so.

1600

· #6 · Oct 21, 2005

oh lad, someone is after opening a can of worms. Make that a few cans actually. I could name 5 modified cars in the country over the capacity tho its the turbo charged cars which would really gain from illegalities....
I think if a protest is made after an event over capacity or something and the car is found to be illegal, the driver pays a fine. If the car is legal, the protester pays a fine, or something to that effect.

1117

· #7 · Oct 21, 2005

There was talk on this forum in the last 24 hours about 25 BHP extra on the Genies Corolla-how is what I would like to know-was it only putting out 275 BHP this year nad next year it will be putting out the required 300BHP-we all know all WRC cars are putting out more than the regulation 300 BHP so that makes them all illegal and as for the GRP N-a bit of STP petrol additive in the tank and a bit of sugar makes it all the more sweeter-woops-gave away a secret-silly me. Made the last bit up-honest.

Rose Joint

· #8 · Oct 21, 2005

If the engine is sealed by a scrutineer they have so many days (90 i think ) before they they can check it out. The driver nominates who they want to strip the engine down. If its all ok M.I. have to pay for the cost of stripping the engine, if the engine is illegal then the driver pays the costs & is the penalised aswell..

fatboymotorsport

· #9 · Oct 21, 2005

Originally posted by Rose Joint
If its all ok M.I. have to pay for the cost of stripping the engine, if the engine is illegal then the driver pays the costs & is the penalised aswell..

if it is found to be ok msi pay nothing you have to pay to prove you are legal or illegal if you are illegal you also have to pay the scrutineers expensis and everything else the can think of
most scrtuneers hav'nt got a clue the only know about the saftey side of things nothing else

craig bennett

· #10 · Oct 21, 2005

The fuel used by the cars is another way of cheating it was great in rally ireland that all the wrc cars ran on the same fuel so there was no advantage on using other fuels.We have been told that there is a fuel with alot higher octane that if the car is mapped for it will give alot more torque and bhp. We were offered it for sale at the start of the year but refused because it is cheating.

andnor

· #11 · Oct 21, 2005

why dont u's have the balls + say who is cheating instead of dancing around it:roll: put it like this i dont think -EDITED- car is 100% legal. he has never been totally checked.

[Edited on 24-10-2005 by ral.ly]

buzzlenny

· #12 · Oct 22, 2005

that car is 110% legal . Its just that he such a class act . you ignorant twit.

anto

· #13 · Oct 22, 2005

Originally posted by andnor
why dont u's have the balls + say who is cheating instead of dancing around it:roll: put it like this i dont think ***** ****** car is 100% legal. he has never been totally checked.

dont say names

Tropsrotom

· #14 · Oct 22, 2005

Shur if you were beaten by a fella from down the country who wears wellies in your own back yard Donegal stages wouldnt you want to say that he cheats as well!!

Donegal shams thought they were king of the Civics untill that chap appeared on the international this year- I saw him stop on Glenn village and it was the standard diff in his car that couldnt cope with such pace while other cars could at 85% of his pace

And Craig I thought that fuel you mention was ok in Ireland it just needs a lot of re mapping and its not strictly illegal if you look at it under Irish rules? a letter of the law as oppose to a spirit of the law thing? and its a lot more expensive?

What you are saying about Rally Ireland being fair?????

Was it???

Was there any Fuel samples taken?

Where did you fill from controlled fuel suppliers before Leg 1??

Not being smart just devils advocate of the discussion?

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anfearmor

· #15 · Oct 22, 2005

he actually did,nt get 2 glen village-he stopped about 2 miles into the stage because a mounting on the gearbox broke on the saturday + it was tied up with a ratchet strap + broke then again on the sunday morning. he has a quaife gearkit in the car-is that standard??? im not saying he is'nt a good driver but the car is'nt 100% legal:dunno:

v800

· #16 · Oct 22, 2005

donegal is the most bent county there is two types of civics in the country a normal N2 and a donegal civic with a bias valve gear kit and v-tec controller

Johnny Baird

· #17 · Oct 22, 2005

Originally posted by v800
donegal is the most bent county there is two types of civics in the country a normal N2 and a donegal civic with a bias valve gear kit and v-tec controller

yet another girl from down the country beaten by us fantastic donegal competitors

craig bennett

· #18 · Oct 22, 2005

From waht i have been told fuel above 104 octane is not legal .
i agree with what you say on rally ireland but after leg one everyone would have to be on shell.

jimbob

· #19 · Oct 22, 2005

does the fuel on rally ireland having to be shell wrc fuel explain -EDITED- average performance ??no seven pounds a litre fuel allowed at rally ireland !!

[Edited on 24-10-2005 by ral.ly]

Darren Harvey

· #20 · Oct 22, 2005

Originally posted by v800
donegal is the most bent county there is two types of civics in the country a normal N2 and a donegal civic with a bias valve gear kit and v-tec controller

Well do we have a bad loser here or just an ass--le

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