[cannyboy]

I don't really get the point of the Gp N class - the idea is to have standard production vehicles, but the cost of them now is starting to get crazy too.

You take a fast base car, stick a silly restrictor on it so I coughs and wheezes, and then spend untold money trying to get it to go as quick as it did before the restrictor.

Whats the point?

If you took the base road car, you could make it quicker in a straight line than the Gp N car, for a few hundred quid.


Why not shake up the rules a bit and bring rallying back to it's roots where production cars really are production cars, and not these hyper expensive machine that struggle for air........

 

[McS]

if you read the article posted by middle east driver on "one make" series you shall see that your not the only one looking for this!!

 

[Neil McC]

Originally posted by cannyboy
.

You take a fast base car, stick a silly restrictor on it so I coughs and wheezes, and then spend untold money trying to get it to go as quick as it did before the restrictor.

The amount of times I try to explain to someone that a road going evo is faster than my rally car, and they just don't understand.........Come to think of it, neither do I.

 

[cannyboy]

Kinda scary to think that you end up having to spend more for less...

I know that in the US, they run open class group a, where the cars don't have restrictors, and easily push out 400-450 bhp. There cars are relitavly cheap.
Perhaps half the reason WRC cars are getting so expensive, along with grp N is these stupid restrictors.

Perhaps the FIA classes are in reality, much ado about nothing, forcing manufacturers to spend obscene money to make a car that would in reality be much faster without a restrictor and most of the gizmos..........

It'll probably take a recession to make some people realise that the costs involved in irish and world rallying are a joke.
It seems that the wrc is seeng it already.............

 

[pat4wd]

Yeah,but the other side of that argument,and I agree with everything you say, is that if you allow the manufacturers to run unrestricted again how long will it be before we're back to the Group B figures of 5 and 600 HP.
Yes,for those of us who remember it was a great rallying era....but it cost lives.That kind of horsepower on an oval track where spectator control is not a major issue is fine,but put that kind of horsepower on Ring or Castlemagnier, with spectators in close proximity, and we're straight back to the insurance issues of the late 80's.
Remember,the group B era was great,but how long did it last?

[Edited on 10-1-2006 by pat4wd]

 

[DavidN]

The horse power wasnt the problem in group B, surely the problem was that engine devolopement had got ahead of all other devolopement, turbos stuck in beside petrol tanks, Spectator control barely existed etc:dunno:

 

[pat4wd]

Yeah David,but I'll always remember Walter Rohrl being interviewed a while after he retired and he was asked about driving the Group B cars.
He explained it thus:
"When you drive a rally car you feel it start to go and you take action to correct the slide or whatever it is.
When you feel a group B car starting to go it's already too late"

And Rorhl could drive that Audi!!!

 

[rev up]

http://www.samepower.com/Filer/StageDrive-Audi.WMV check this out!!!!

 

[pat4wd]

Link doesn't work REV :dunno:

 

[McS]

Originally posted by pat4wd
Yeah,but the other side of that argument,and I agree with everything you say, is that if you allow the manufacturers to run unrestricted again how long will it be before we're back to the Group B figures of 5 and 600 HP.
Yes,for those of us who remember it was a great rallying era....but it cost lives.That kind of horsepower on an oval track where spectator control is not a major issue is fine,but put that kind of horsepower on Ring or Castlemagnier, with spectators in close proximity, and we're straight back to the insurance issues of the late 80's.
Remember,the group B era was great,but how long did it last?

[Edited on 10-1-2006 by pat4wd]

It lasted as long as the manufacturers and those "coining" outta the sport wanted it to !!! or maybe till they .. and the "Health & Safety/Insurance brigade" realised... shit - spectators "in middle of road" wif a 500bhp+ snorting machine about to pullverise them ......... INSUFFICIENT SPECTATOR CONTROL KILLED GROUP.B in association with the rally-money-tree

 

[kkknaskar]

Originally posted by cannyboy
Kinda scary to think that you end up having to spend more for less...

I know that in the US, they run open class group a, where the cars don't have restrictors, and easily push out 400-450 bhp. There cars are relitavly cheap.
Perhaps half the reason WRC cars are getting so expensive, along with grp N is these stupid restrictors.



this is not true i am afraid in production class they use 32 mm and open is 34 mm restrictor


although apart from the restrictor open class allows for any other ways to produce bhp

 

[1117]

AS we saw recently WRC cars cost lives too. The WRC cars are as fast now as were the Broup B cars then. Frankly I think it is time to get back to basics. Ban all techno gizmos including Turbos, allow options on 4 WD or 2 WD, get the cars back to a level where the ordinary man in the street could build his own car and turn up and give everyone a run for thier money. Look as Killarney historics-some real action there and in all historics- in fact look at the MK II escort-great sport, great spectacle and even now the costs of a good MK II are getting crazy.

 

[anfearmor]

killarney was hardly back 2 basics, there were still cars there costing near 100000euro:caution:

 

[1117]

The Stratos perhaps but then a unique car. A gaggle of porsche worth perhaps €50000 each and then a plethora of lots of normal stuff-Escorts, Minis, Volvos, Etc, ETc-pretty basic stuff I'd say.

 

[cannyboy]

It's a joke the money involved - it's bloody great at the minute from a spectator standpoint, but the money being spent is not sustanable in the long run.

The long term future of rallying depends on the FIA being able to come up with a realistic formula for rallying for the years to come.

When people pay prodrive 1500 to wash their cars for them, you get the impression that this can't go on for much longer.......

 

[kkknaskar]

i'll have to agree there the development of wrc cars for me has peaked and its time to bring back the sideways style of group a active diffs are great but all the technology involved drives the cost sky high for smaller manufactuers i really cant wait to see a day when we see the best drivers in the world on a level playing field then the current wrc cars although great will be the dinosaurs of world rally ,overpriced but brilliant remnants of post celtic tiger ireland. just a thought:idea: