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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am wondring what is the legality with doing gravel notes before each stage starts, I heard talk that this was been carried out by some of the top drivers at the weekend.:dunno::dunno:
 

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Fergus McAnallen
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Haven't top crews been doing it for years? As for their legality, they aren't exactly chase cars, because they aren't doing anything physical to the car or supporting the car in spares or supplies.
 

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Letter of the law its illegal.

APPENDIX 0 Section 4.8 pg 84 2006 Motorsport Ireland Green Book
4.8 Any competition licence holder who practices,
reconnoitres or otherwise examines a Special Stage
outside the specified reconnaissance period, or causes
any person to do so on his behalf
will incur the following
penalties: -
(a) A fine of €380 which will apply to each competition
licence holder and payable to the club organising the
event at which the breach of regulation was committed,
and
(b) Start refused, and
(c) Entry Fee forfeit, and
(d) Start refused for all MI permitted events until
any or all monies or fines are paid in full.



[Edited on 6-2-2006 by Tropsrotom]
 

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Fergus McAnallen
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Well it could easily be proved but my assumption is, having seen many mud notes crews go through stages just before road closing over the years, The organisers would be too busy when a stage is about to close to have the resources to stop and question every car that is driving around a stage. They also might not have the authority to stop people randomly outside of road closing hours?

[Edited on 6-2-2006 by rallyretro]
 

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Yeah its always been done for the past 8 years or so just go through the stage before the road closes and say ur lookin for a good spot to spectate, i've done them a couple times last year for top drivers. never ne bother.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I was talken to a guy who was doin gravel notes before EACH stage and was then stopped by the COC going into stage 8.
 

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When I say prove it I mean prove who you are doing notes for if at all?

How can organisers prove that car X are the crew that sent me out there?

I know of 2 guys in a shinny subaru on a rally were almost rammed by an over zealous dick head of a marshal who decided all gravel note crews were his target, he broadsided the scabby transit blocking the wee laneway the two lads in the subaru just locked the doors and pretended to fall asleep, he had to move the transit eventually and the 2 lads drove on at the sensible speed needed to check weather and gravel conditions.

Gravel notes are not a problem once the drivers are driving at a sensible manner and not pissing off residents, the lads in the shinny Subaru I heard about were singled out along with 2 other crews that morning simply because a competitor had been out for a 6am extra recce and he tore on at breakneck speeds to get away from Transit dude etc and was never properly identified- now thats a piss take problem.

What happened to the chap on stage 8 was he let on about his job?


Think about it though if I had a WRC worth a half a million I would want every precaution taken that I wasnt going to come over a flat crest and find fresh cow shite?
 

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on rally ireland it was very obvious for about 3 cars that they where gathering mud/gravel notes! one evo8 with a bonnet pod on it with 2 men inside on the phone, another was a white focus with tinted windows with roll cage and cam corder bolted in looking out the front with baby ariel etc to talk to crew i presume, both these cars drove the stage a couple of time before the road closed but i didn't think it'd be illegal
 

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Ryan Hurson
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i dont see the problem, its not as if the drivers actualy do them, each driver has a team to do them, it would be impossible for most drivers to do them , unless they got up at 5am then drove back for sign on etc. all that is done is checking the road, to see if mr farmer has pulled out a heap of mud, which would change a note big time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
No he was not let onto the stage. Thats how i got chatting to him, he was in spectating then.
He also had a shinny silver subaru:dunno::dunno::dunno:

[Edited on 6-2-2006 by sideways]
 

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Really you're talking safety here.The notes have already been done during recce and gravel note crews will usually add in changed road conditions such as new road works(gravel.shiny tar,big hole etc)or maybe, depending on the time of year,a couple of hundred yards of mud or slurry where you have a braking point marked,they won't actually alter the notes.
As it is not the crew(driver/navigator)checking the notes I don't think it can be construed as another look at the stage outside recce times(illegal recce in other words) but I suppose it's down to the organisers of each event as to whether they allow gravel notes or not.
I know I'm going into interpretation here and all the rest of it,but I think the regulation in the green book is designed to stop competitors making peoples lives a misery by driving the stages week after week,thus the phrase "specified reconaissance period".
As long as the note crews are not making a nuisance of themselves on the day of the rally I don't see the harm in it.
As you all know the guys at the top of the championships are absolutely on the limit and driving some very expensive machinery.I know there is the argument that the Mark 2/ twin cam etc is as expensive to run for the clubman as the WRC is to the top guys,relatively speaking,but I think everone here will understand what I mean.
Just my opinion.
:)
 

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Formerly PJ RS1800
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The bottom line is they are illegal lads, according to the Green Book anyway:eek:
However, I really dont see the harm in letting the top guys, or anyone else for that matter, have a dedicated team check over the stages for them just before road closing, once it is done responsibly.
Whether you run a Nova, an Escort or an S10, nothing is cheap to run and if this situation is controlled properly it shouldn't cause the sport as much harm as the guys who are on the stages 6 weeks before the event.................
 

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Formerly RS200
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if car no 4 hits a bank and is sitting sideways on the stage and car number 5 comes along and a spectator or marshall is standing a corner before waving car number 5 down, is this illegal?
 

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Originally posted by RS200
if car no 4 hits a bank and is sitting sideways on the stage and car number 5 comes along and a spectator or marshall is standing a corner before waving car number 5 down, is this illegal?
Don't understand your question.This has nothing to do with gravel notes.Of course either a spectator or marshal waving a car down to warn them of a stage blockage is not illegal.(The marshal will/should have a yellow flag for this purpose).
If you are eluding to the fact that the following crew are being forewarned of a hazard on the stage then it is NOT illegal...not even according to the green book.The wording is very clear about who the regulation is aimed at:
"4.8 Any competition licence holder who practices,
reconnoitres or otherwise examines a Special Stage
outside the specified reconnaissance period, or causes
any person to do so on his behalf will incur the following
penalties"
 

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Formerly RS200
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fair enough, i kno its not much of a comparison but u know what i mean.

i think tho both things should fall under safety, and therefore gravel notes be legal.

145mph come across a patch of muck.......exactly.
 

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IN THEORY BUT HOW DO YOU PROVE THAT A CREW IS DOING GRAVEL NOTES?? IMPOSSIBLE!! UNLESS THEY HAVE A BIG STICKER UP THE SIDE SAYING 'WE ARE DOING GRAVEL NOTES FOR CAR No. 1' YOU CAN'T PROVE IT? ROADS ARE OPEN TO PUBLIC PATTERSON HAS THE RIGHT TO SELL PACENOTES TO ANYONE HE WANTS INCLUDING GENERAL PUBLIC. SO YOU CAN LOGICALLY PROVE WITH TODAYS LEGAL SYSTEM THAT CAR No. ?? HAS A ILLEGAL GRAVEL NOTE CAR OUT, IF YOU STOP THE GRAVEL CAR THE GUYS WILL TELL YOU THERE OUT LOOKING FOR GOOD SPECTATING POINTS.

THERE IS NO HARM IN DOING GRAVEL NOTES IF ANYTHING IT BETTER FOR HEALTH & SAFETY, IT IS JUST SOME THE MUPPETS WHO DO GRAVEL NOTES THINK THEY ARE ACTUALLY COMPETITING
 

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i think the rallys should take a leaf out of the ulster rally and supply gravel plates for any one that wants to do gravel eg all the top crews gravel crews were out with G1,G2,G3 on the car.Anyone speeding then or causing problems can be reported and punished accordingly
 
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