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Gary Nolan
08-11-2011, 12:55
See rallycarsforsale.net

Anyone know if this is true or has someone got their facts mixed up?

Would be a shame to see this car leave Ireland.

harrington_cit
08-11-2011, 13:03
http://rallycarsforsale.net/clas/index.php?ct=fsrca&md=details&id=58327

Martin
08-11-2011, 13:08
Be interesting to see what that'll fetch.

euw938v
08-11-2011, 13:13
Just saw it now. The car will be missed much loved with huge History. Prodrive were looking/got 145k for an original Prodrive customer M3. Surely DR will re purchase the car huge sentimental value for him and Prodrive. First win at world level

caseyrallysport
08-11-2011, 15:39
Just saw this on the rallycarsforsale site. Gobsmacked to say the least. It really is hard to put a value on that car. I think BMW themselves will be very interested in this peice of motorsport history given that it was the one and only M3 to win a WRC round. That must be a hard decision for Denis to make...it really is a special car.

mexico mk 1
08-11-2011, 15:51
was that car auctioned before dennis got the wrc or was it the ascona

Podge Newe
08-11-2011, 16:01
Coys will take a fair whack of commission on the sale.

Clan
08-11-2011, 16:19
Is it actually Denis's car for sale i.e the real one or the Fake one that Belgium chap tried to say was real a few years back.


Read all about it here.

http://www.forum-auto.com/sport-auto/photo-sport-auto/sujet378080.htm

caseyrallysport
08-11-2011, 16:26
Just heard thru the channels that this is complete rubbish. Cronins are not selling the car. Appartently some chap on the continent has built a clone of GXI 9427 and is attempting to sell it as the genuine article. Coy's say that they have nothing to do with the car, they are mearly facillitating the auction. Some neck on this fella.

Clan
08-11-2011, 16:33
Just heard thru the channels that this is complete rubbish. Cronins are not selling the car. Appartently some chap on the continent has built a clone of GXI 9427 and is attempting to sell it as the genuine article. Coy's say that they have nothing to do with the car, they are mearly facillitating the auction. Some neck on this fella.


If they get onto the stolen Vehicles section in Scotland Yard they can get the fake one lifted even if it is in Belgium..

Gary Nolan
08-11-2011, 16:43
[QUOTE=Clan;336684]Is it actually Denis's car for sale i.e the real one or the Fake one that Belgium chap tried to say was real a few years back.

QUOTE]

That was the initial question I asked Clan. Found it hard to believe, seeing as Denis had held onto her this long.

Mark Lowe
08-11-2011, 16:56
Just heard thru the channels that this is complete rubbish. Cronins are not selling the car. Appartently some chap on the continent has built a clone of GXI 9427 and is attempting to sell it as the genuine article. Coy's say that they have nothing to do with the car, they are mearly facillitating the auction. Some neck on this fella.

One name springs to mind if thats true

Clan
08-11-2011, 17:11
[QUOTE=Clan;336684]Is it actually Denis's car for sale i.e the real one or the Fake one that Belgium chap tried to say was real a few years back.

QUOTE]

That was the initial question I asked Clan. Found it hard to believe, seeing as Denis had held onto her this long.

Yeah sorry Gary, i just thought people were missing your question and I just remembered back to when this was a huge debate on Forum Auto, as far as I remember this guy could not produce evidence.

koc
08-11-2011, 17:11
See rallycarsforsale.net

Anyone know if this is true or has someone got their facts mixed up?

Would be a shame to see this car leave Ireland.

Cronins BMW is not for sale!!

Car as advertised on rallycarsforsale.net is not even a genuine representation of GXI 9427 as it was converted to Right Hand Drive for the late Bertie Fisher.

Some people going to bid for a bucket of £$%t methinks!!

Wobbles
08-11-2011, 17:31
Didnt believe it when i saw it. I dont think Denis will ever part with the car. There were rumours that prodrive offered him a huge amount for it a few years back and he said no. Good to see that money is not everything

Paddy Boyce
08-11-2011, 18:33
Ad Gone.:p

[Quote]
"
This ad is inaccessible at present time
and will apear in the index after approving by admin.

cole2
08-11-2011, 19:16
Got some shock when I logged onto this forum while ago! Was going to ring Denis to see if he was feeling ok, cos things must be bad:laugh: Id say somehow that GXI9427 will be seeing out her days in ballylickey.Hopefully she will be let out for a canter every now and again though. Savage machine!

Martin
08-11-2011, 19:49
I dont think Denis will ever part with the car.

If I get 5 numbers & 2 lucky stars in Friday nights Euromillions, He'd sell it.

citsaxman
08-11-2011, 20:40
If I get 5 numbers & 2 lucky stars in Friday nights Euromillions, He'd sell it.

i doubt it, the story was that BMW wanted that car for their motorsport museum and more or less offered denis a blank cheque but he wouldn't sell, fairplay to him if it is true!

Martin
08-11-2011, 21:17
Makes you wonder why BMW/Prodrive let the car go to private hands?

rallyirl
09-11-2011, 10:27
At the time I guess the value was only what she'd get as a competioin car, not as a piece of rallying history, sure M-sport sold R55 OTH,RS 50TH for the 50th Focus identity, there was even a special launch of the car before Deutschland rally with the car in gold rims and a gold grille and made a special poster to comemorate it all,and when we were building it they said that it would be for the museum also...
http://s1-02.twitpicproxy.com/photos/large/444037024.jpg

Mick O Riordan
09-11-2011, 18:01
i doubt it, the story was that BMW wanted that car for their motorsport museum and more or less offered denis a blank cheque but he wouldn't sell, fairplay to him if it is true!
I was in Prodrive a few years ago and a guy called Steve took me on a tour of the factory, on entering the museum he explained that all the cars on display were ' milestones' in their history i.e. the car that gave them their first wrc win
It started with an M3
The car on display was owned by a French customer who was involved in container shipping and it was supposed to be the Tour de Corsa winner
I disagreed with him and the tour finished verry quickly after that

rasp
09-11-2011, 18:20
i doubt it, the story was that BMW wanted that car for their motorsport museum and more or less offered denis a blank cheque but he wouldn't sell, fairplay to him if it is true!

I heard the same story too....by all accounts a blank cheque arrived from Germany with the intention of bringing that car back to the BMW museum....and in a typically Cronin understated,humble and polite way....he sent the cheque back with a note saying "no thankyou".....you gotta love him for that!!

Martin
09-11-2011, 18:23
Never seen the prodrive museum, but I believe the M3 they have is D116 POV

Clan
09-11-2011, 18:36
Never seen the prodrive museum, but I believe the M3 they have is D116 POV

Indeed it is, saw it a few months back in the Museum. It is unfair to keep it caged up like that.

jonspeed
09-11-2011, 19:10
In fairness is cronins m3 not as rough as a badgers **** ? I know it has history etc but last time i seen it it wasnt a beauty queen, although i havent seen it since new colour scheme .

jonspeed
09-11-2011, 19:14
While we are on m3s is mac hale s adz 9667 still owned by philip shaw ?

Martin
09-11-2011, 19:58
Indeed it is, saw it a few months back in the Museum. It is unfair to keep it caged up like that.

I Think this is the museum car. Manx last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIO5aY6w0C0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Clan
09-11-2011, 20:08
I Think this is the museum car. Manx last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIO5aY6w0C0&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Indeed it is , and Patrick antics that day gave the prodrive people a panic attack I don't think he will be let back into it again. Its a good job he bought a Mini WRC to make amends.

caseyrallysport
09-11-2011, 20:10
In fairness is cronins m3 not as rough as a badgers **** ? I know it has history etc but last time i seen it it wasnt a beauty queen, although i havent seen it since new colour scheme .


Id have to disagree there. That car always wanted for nothing. It was a working competition car up to a few years ago and had the signs of it yes, but it had a serious make over when the WRC car came on the scene. The last time I saw the car it was in very good condition. Regardless of the condition of the car it still is the original one and only GXI 9427 and jonspeed if it were sitting in your garage you'd be a proud boy now would'nt you.

jonspeed
09-11-2011, 20:13
Paul wasnt having a go love the car and would love the price off it . Just saying last time i seen it was def rough .

abe1234
09-11-2011, 21:38
While we are on m3s is mac hale s adz 9667 still owned by philip shaw ?

woodside haulage own that car now

jonspeed
09-11-2011, 21:49
Its not green on an f reg now is it ?

Martin
09-11-2011, 21:52
woodside haulage own that car now

100% sure?

cole2
09-11-2011, 22:00
Was there at the Grandstand on the isle of man last year when snijers decided to perform doughnuts before he crossed the line of the last stage. only Inches from the wall on either side. what a legend! Was magic through Castletown too.

Podge Newe
13-01-2012, 13:43
On the Coys stand at the Autosport show yesterday this " EX WORKS " M3 was on display.

http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz105/newep/DSCF0111.jpg

Later on in the afternoon the same " EX WORKS " M3 had the reg plate covered over.

http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz105/newep/DSCF0160.jpg

BMC
13-01-2012, 13:54
I wonder did somebody start asking questions!

touch of the clutch
13-01-2012, 14:00
100% sure?

Last time I spoke to philip it was very much his. Was waiting on new engine. That was october

Stephen Mullaney
13-01-2012, 15:13
is it me or des the car look rough

909
13-01-2012, 15:28
which car..?

Podge Newe
13-01-2012, 15:33
I wonder did somebody start asking questions!


a lot of questions being asked about you these days :rolleyes:

Podge Newe
13-01-2012, 15:34
is it me or des the car look rough

Dog rough both inside and out . Will post up interior pics later.

jonspeed
13-01-2012, 16:08
From what i can see even looks like a standard steering wheel ??

Gerard Mc Carron
13-01-2012, 16:28
Dog rough both inside and out . Will post up interior pics later.

Thanks for the pictures of the fake M3, lookin forward to the rest of them.
Any sign of the seller kicking about there?
Judging by the 2pictures you have up it does look rough indeed.
Sorry now I couldn't make it over.
Is the auction on tomorrow and will you be bidding on it?

x-works
13-01-2012, 17:37
Came across an interesting observation made on another website
by someone who knows the Prodrive M3 works shell's intimately.

same picture shown above but with the joint of the rear cage diagonal
to main hoop circled..........

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/mck287/DSCF0111.jpg

and then a picture of a genuine works prepared shell for comparison.........

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/mck287/2007prodrivepics097ap1.jpg

kieranoneill
13-01-2012, 17:43
:wacko::wacko:
which car..?

Niall O Sullivan
13-01-2012, 18:36
Id have to disagree there. That car always wanted for nothing. It was a working competition car up to a few years ago and had the signs of it yes, but it had a serious make over when the WRC car came on the scene. The last time I saw the car it was in very good condition. Regardless of the condition of the car it still is the original one and only GXI 9427 and jonspeed if it were sitting in your garage you'd be a proud boy now would'nt you.
Fair play at least somebody is talking sense .The real car and original is still in the hands of Denis and is getting a serious make over and before anyone starts to ask i meet Denis and Keith on a regular basis that is once or twice a week

Mark Lowe
13-01-2012, 19:19
The car fisher had and snijers before had the fuel filler next to the reg plate
is this the shell denis has or is that one still about

909
13-01-2012, 20:23
:wacko::wacko:

What's this about..? At the point where I asked the question they were discussing 3 different M3's so it was a valid question....dipstick ;)

alankane
13-01-2012, 20:40
Denis's car was fully restored from taillight to headlight in monaghan a few years back and I brought it back to cork for him and as did very little since its in great looking shape and the wrc car got a make over lately in the same place

Podge Newe
13-01-2012, 20:59
A few of the interior

http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz105/newep/DSCF0158.jpg

http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz105/newep/DSCF0157.jpg

http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz105/newep/DSCF0159.jpg

Podge Newe
13-01-2012, 21:03
Documentation

http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz105/newep/DSCF0162.jpg

http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz105/newep/DSCF0161.jpg

Not to mention the tasty fabrication around the gearlever !!

http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz105/newep/DSCF0156.jpg

Art McCarrick
13-01-2012, 21:03
The car fisher had and snijers before had the fuel filler next to the reg plate
is this the shell denis has or is that one still about

All proper Prodrive M3's had the fuel filler in the boot lid. Delage built cars and replicas usually don't although Fergal Allen has upgraded his over the years.... For what it's worth here's the back of Cronin's car from Clare 2003

http://www.crspics.com/2003/national/clare03/03-22-237-30.jpg

909
13-01-2012, 21:03
Jesus Christ....there will be better cars in Monaghan tomorrow night at the night nav !!

Podge Newe
13-01-2012, 21:23
http://www.coys.co.uk/auction.php?itemID=1324&auctionID=19

What I can't comprehend is that Coys are renowned Auctioneers of classic / historic automobiles & to have this piece of S H I T there yesterday amongst the £M or so of other desirable cars is simply baffling. The paintwork on the wheels was apalling. The fact that there was no reserve on such a rare car of which there are only 10 in existence frankly is very suspicious.

Noel157
13-01-2012, 21:24
Came across an interesting observation made on another website
by someone who knows the Prodrive M3 works shell's intimately.

same picture shown above but with the joint of the rear cage diagonal
to main hoop circled..........

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/mck287/DSCF0111.jpg

and then a picture of a genuine works prepared shell for comparison.........

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/mck287/2007prodrivepics097ap1.jpg



As said elsewhere it's not just the rear side bars, look at the rear bars, one less diagonal. Must've got it off Ebay.

http://www.crspics.com/2003/national/clare03/03-22-237-30.jpg

fatboymotorsport
13-01-2012, 21:31
any interior shots of a works M3 about, Apart from the tasty :D ones on this thread of course.

crspics.com
13-01-2012, 21:40
Podge, the plate was covered over before lunch, was chatting to somebody that was having a very good look at it, he was even under it. He says he knew the car, cannot understand why it was left there if so much was know about it.

Noel157
13-01-2012, 22:07
Didn't the original Prodrive cars have the clocks and dials set in a red panel? Same as the old (and fantastic) 2002 Turbo.

civic
13-01-2012, 23:19
That M3 is far from a collectors item, its a rough as a bears hole !



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James Greenan
13-01-2012, 23:24
A few of the interior

http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz105/newep/DSCF0158.jpg

http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz105/newep/DSCF0157.jpg

http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz105/newep/DSCF0159.jpg
thats a foockin hen house. how did that get in to the nec.

Tiger
13-01-2012, 23:26
Denis's car was fully restored from taillight to headlight in monaghan a few years back and I brought it back to cork for him and as did very little since its in great looking shape and the wrc car got a make over lately in the same place
Give the man a plug that done the job - i think he was working on it on and off for maybe two years , Is it JG Hughes in Monaghan ?, story goes when it was in his workshop it sat on axle stands but with cardboard between the stands and the body of the car :o: - fact !!!

mat797
13-01-2012, 23:26
heres a better one for you bought a coys book today a show and the guide price is £65,000-£85,000 unbeliveble ive never seen a car so ruff under the bonnet is a total mess

JOB
14-01-2012, 00:17
Some of you will remember me kicking up a big fuss about this heap of sh*t and the conman that is trying to defraud someone out of cash with false plates on it. He has form in this game and is well known within those in the know. I just wanted to bring his antics to a wider audience. Coys, as has been pointed out elsewhere, take no responsibility for his claims. They are there for their sales commission and its inclusion speaks volumes about their standards.

Mark Lowe
14-01-2012, 00:44
Quickbuckcoys.con

rallyretro
14-01-2012, 01:13
Photos of Beguins car from Tour de Corse 1987 !

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee173/rallyretro/Corsica_87/S1-A4-10-BernardBeguin.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee173/rallyretro/Corsica_87/S1-A5-10-BernardBeguin.jpg

rallyretro
14-01-2012, 01:43
All proper Prodrive M3's had the fuel filler in the boot lid

'All proper Prodrive M3s' ??
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee173/rallyretro/Corsica_87/S6-C4-14-MarcDuez.jpg
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee173/rallyretro/Corsica_87/S6-E3-10-BernardBeguin.jpg

rallyretro
14-01-2012, 01:45
All proper Prodrive M3's had the fuel filler in the boot lid. Delage built cars and replicas usually don't although Fergal Allen has upgraded his over the years.... For what it's worth here's the back of Cronin's car from Clare 2003

http://www.crspics.com/2003/national/clare03/03-22-237-30.jpg

Do you mean the area to left or right of number plate like the Cronin one, or where? Heres two pics of the first Prodrive M3s which dont appear to have the one to the side of number plate anyway

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee173/rallyretro/Corsica_87/S6-C4-14-MarcDuez.jpg
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee173/rallyretro/Corsica_87/S6-E3-10-BernardBeguin.jpg

Art McCarrick
14-01-2012, 01:59
Maybe it was after 88 that change happened or I could be wrong but whatever that car came to Ireland it had the fuel filler in the boot. When Snijers used it on the Manx fuel filler wasn't in the boot. Were the initial cars not adapted touring cars? There could well have been plates swapped somewhere who knows?

Anyways to any person with a brain in their nut they can see the car above is a knock off and no eejit in the world will pay the money Coys are estimating it to fetch

Maurice Malone
14-01-2012, 03:08
Fairly appalling. Fair enough if he put up for sale as what it is, a dog rough M3. But trying to pass it off as the genuine article when everyone knows the true story..look at the steering wheel and gearknob even, straight out of a standard E30 or E36 by the looks of it..any pictures of the engine bay?

alankane
14-01-2012, 07:56
I think m3 touring cars had changes to their cages and difference to gusses plates inside car it's like a touring turn into a rally car and he looking for thick customor with thick wallet that doesn't know much about them and just wants one

Gerard Mc Carron
14-01-2012, 12:22
Am I right in sayin that today is the day of the auction?

Maybe if theres any Forum members about there today they might keep us informed on how it goes.

Podge Newe
14-01-2012, 12:53
Some of you will remember me kicking up a big fuss about this heap of sh*t and the conman that is trying to defraud someone out of cash with false plates on it. He has form in this game and is well known within those in the know. I just wanted to bring his antics to a wider audience. Coys, as has been pointed out elsewhere, take no responsibility for his claims. They are there for their sales commission and its inclusion speaks volumes about their standards.

Well put James , Standards me hole , it really looked the part amongst the other classics on the stand the last day ... NOT !! Jesus the ex Russians M3 recce car that was smoke damaged in Prodrive last week would be a far better buy than that heap of S H I T Coys are trying to auction.

Mark Lowe
14-01-2012, 13:07
Coys
Desperate times selling desperate stuff

Noel157
14-01-2012, 15:35
It hasn't gone through the ring yet, another hour or so to go. Will be interesting to see the hammer price, assuming it's sold.

Eoin Sills
14-01-2012, 16:15
It hasn't gone through the ring yet, another hour or so to go. Will be interesting to see the hammer price, assuming it's sold.

will be interesting to see what description coys give of the car now when its going under the hammer

Noel157
14-01-2012, 17:54
Just had a call. Car was bought by a bidder and then returned due to some issues with it's description/providence.

Chris Dineen
14-01-2012, 18:06
I wonder what issues he found or more likely didnt find ?? :laugh:

Cian Corbett
14-01-2012, 18:23
Ha delighted..that car should be shredded!

Tommy Hayes
14-01-2012, 18:33
Ah now I'd have it if he took a 99 focus lx in part ex and put the bimmer on a TN plate

Cian Corbett
14-01-2012, 18:36
Any idea what the final bid on it was?

Noel157
14-01-2012, 18:44
Lower guide price I'm told.

koc
14-01-2012, 23:05
Just had a call. Car was bought by a bidder and then returned due to some issues with it's description/providence.

Buyer was actually a plant in crowd trying to raise the price..but ended up being the highest bidder @£24,000! That was the REAL problem!!

Podge Newe
14-01-2012, 23:13
Buyer was actually a plant in crowd trying to raise the price..but ended up being the highest bidder @£24,000! That was the REAL problem!!

What goes around and all that ;)

koc
15-01-2012, 00:18
In fairness is cronins m3 not as rough as a badgers **** ? I know it has history etc but last time i seen it it wasnt a beauty queen, although i havent seen it since new colour scheme .

Cronins car GXI9427 is the finest example of an M3 you will ever see!!
In better shape now than when she left Banbury for the first time!
When Denis got it originally it was a little rough as some of the previous damage was poorly repaired, which is surprising, given the illustrious list of owners.
Previous posts have outlined the TLC that JG Hughes gave the car during a total shell rebuild....Not re-shelled but new chassis legs etc and the car was also totally rewired etc
Absolutely beautiful in the Rothmans colours, i'll post pics when i find them!!

Neil Whelton
15-01-2012, 00:19
I'd say he hopefully got his answer if he was expecting €65k to €85k and nobody would outbid his own man at €24k!!
To be fair though, the car looks to be in a terrible state, looks very rough in those pictures!!

Noel157
15-01-2012, 00:22
Buyer was actually a plant in crowd trying to raise the price..but ended up being the highest bidder @£24,000! That was the REAL problem!!

Coys said this:

Bidder "realised" he didn't want the car. Coys said this was due to the person having "doubts" about the car. Coys were then asked if this was due to the providence issues? They said yes.

It's possibly one version but end result, no matter how it was arrived at, was just and fair.

Neil Whelton
15-01-2012, 00:23
Cronins car GXI9427 is the finest example of an M3 you will ever see!!
In better shape now than when she left Banbury for the first time!
When Denis got it originally it was a little rough as some of the previous damage was poorly repaired, which is surprising, given the illustrious list of owners.
Previous posts have outlined the TLC that JG Hughes gave the car during a total shell rebuild....Not re-shelled but new chassis legs etc and the car was also totally rewired etc
Absolutely beautiful in the Rothmans colours, i'll post pics when i find them!!

Has Cronins car been restored again in the past year or so or was it when he crashed it a few years ago, in Tipp I think it was??

Noel157
15-01-2012, 00:27
Cronins car GXI9427 is the finest example of an M3 you will ever see!!
In better shape now than when she left Banbury for the first time!
When Denis got it originally it was a little rough as some of the previous damage was poorly repaired, which is surprising, given the illustrious list of owners.
Previous posts have outlined the TLC that JG Hughes gave the car during a total shell rebuild....Not re-shelled but new chassis legs etc and the car was also totally rewired etc
Absolutely beautiful in the Rothmans colours, i'll post pics when i find them!!

I'd say the car that Prodrive just built is the finest example (the one smoke damaged in the fire) but overall with the history, titles and drivers the Cronin car is the ultimate car. Yes, pictures please.

crspics.com
15-01-2012, 09:12
http://www.crspics.com/2003/national/clare03/03-22-241-22.jpg
http://www.crspics.com/2003/national/clare03/03-22-233-22.jpg

fatboymotorsport
15-01-2012, 09:17
The car that was damaged in the fire is the Ex Russian brothers Recce car???.

It that the one that was for sale last year for 140K from Prodrive or was that there actual rally car ???

http://www.rallycarsforsale.net/clas/index.php?ct=fsrc&md=details&id=55984

Clan
15-01-2012, 10:57
The car that was damaged in the fire is the Ex Russian brothers Recce car???.

It that the one that was for sale last year for 140K from Prodrive or was that there actual rally car ???

http://www.rallycarsforsale.net/clas/index.php?ct=fsrc&md=details&id=55984

Prodrive converted the Reece car into a full group A car.

JOB
15-01-2012, 12:13
The sport has been littered down the years with people buying what they thought were ex works cars only to find that this, that and the other had been changed and in fact they bought a pup. This guy has lowered the bar to a new depth and buy putting GXI 9427 on it he would be committing a criminal offence in some countries.
I don't believe anybody has an issue with him selling whatever the yoke is but i do have an issue with a so called reputable firm of auctioneers such as Coys giving this guy publicity and I am particularly surprised that whoever runs the Prodrive Facebook page gave him access. If by some chance this shell was the actual Corsica shell with a **** refit of dodgy parts the 24,000 would be a steal and it would have sold. A big thank you to those who attended the auction and kept us updated.

Tommy Hayes
15-01-2012, 12:26
I've a feeling this is going to run and run. It's back up for sale on www.rallycarsforsale.net again.....

Cian Corbett
15-01-2012, 12:50
I've a feeling this is going to run and run. It's back up for sale on www.rallycarsforsale.net again.....

:laugh::laugh: the saga continues!

Are Prodrive aware of this mess?

Could someone please notify them so we can stop this disaster! ha

Eoin Sills
15-01-2012, 13:31
I've a feeling this is going to run and run. It's back up for sale on www.rallycarsforsale.net again.....

it says fully documented with prodrive invoices, which are shown in the pics which is weird this guy must be pushing his luck. Surely someone from prodrive should be looking into this further?

Noel157
15-01-2012, 13:49
It could well be a Prodrive chassis, more than likely is but the main point is it's providence/history. Beguin's winning car or something else. The fact that the above ad shows Beguin and J-J Lenne on the finishing ramp is the issue.

The ad should read:

Possible Prodrive built M3 chassis fitted with 6 cylinder scrapyard donkey last seen running very well in a Lebanese taxi, lots of welding and filler but from a distance, say 300 metres, looks the part and if your're lucky some mug will pony up 50 big ones and think he'll be getting some rallying history.
Car is well known (in more ways than one) by many rallying fans so grab yourself a bargain. Would prefer payment prior to any inspection.

Eoin Sills
15-01-2012, 14:03
It could well be a Prodrive chassis, more than likely is but the main point is it's providence/history. Beguin's winning car or something else. The fact that the above ad shows Beguin and J-J Lenne on the finishing ramp is the issue.

The ad should read:

Possible Prodrive built M3 chassis fitted with 6 cylinder scrapyard donkey last seen running very well in a Lebanese taxi, lots of welding and filler but from a distance, say 300 metres, looks the part and if your're lucky some mug will pony up 50 big ones and think he'll be getting some rallying history.
Car is well known (in more ways than one) by many rallying fans so grab yourself a bargain. Would prefer payment prior to any inspection.

this made me laugh cheer Noel

rallyretro
15-01-2012, 15:16
Not for a minute am I questioning either car being an original or fake Prodrive product but do there appear to be some similarities from those pics because Prodrive built all shells the same ?

- That wiring thing in front of the gear stick is in exactly the same place and appears to be the same product.
- It looks like exactly the same type of navigator trip meter and going by the crease in the dash it looks like something used to sit in the corner (EDIT, in the 1987 pic the meter is under the dash not in the corner of it)
- The wires are going along the same route in each shell

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee173/rallyretro/M3/S1-A4-10-BernardBeguin.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee173/rallyretro/M3/DSCF0157.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee173/rallyretro/M3/DSCF0158.jpg

Calmc
15-01-2012, 22:10
back for sale on rallycarsforsale.net this morning

JOB
15-01-2012, 22:37
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee173/rallyretro/M3/DSCF0157.jpg

The navigators footrest is real eye catching. Must have been fitted with a gearbox out of a Fordson Major at some stage to need the butchering on the tunnel behind the gearlever.

Wise man now prefers payment before inspection - must ask if he supplies a free blindfold as well.

Michael Feeney
15-01-2012, 23:29
so, we're all agreed its a fake
but just giving him the benefit of the doubt for a sec, maybe he actually does believe his car is the real GXI?
Is it possible his shell once had the Reg GXI at some point?
its possible to transfer regs in UK after all
he must have some belief in it if he's so persistant
I assume he has a tax book to match the chassis number?

Did anybody happen to take a pic of the chassis plate/number?

Maurice Malone
16-01-2012, 00:21
Link to the discussion on Forum Auto. From what I could make out through Google translate Cronin's car is Prodrive chassis no 004, and the one being sold by Coy's is chassis no 025.

http://www.forum-auto.com/sport-auto/photo-sport-auto/sujet378080.htm

Eoin Sills
16-01-2012, 01:59
Link to the discussion on Forum Auto. From what I could make out through Google translate Cronin's car is Prodrive chassis no 004, and the one being sold by Coy's is chassis no 025.

http://www.forum-auto.com/sport-auto/photo-sport-auto/sujet378080.htm

yeah thats correct from this forum and the guy who was trying to sell the car at coys is posting on the forum and says 025 chassis is the Beguin car would like to know what prodrives view on this is

JOB
16-01-2012, 16:12
so, we're all agreed its a fake
but just giving him the benefit of the doubt for a sec, maybe he actually does believe his car is the real GXI?
Is it possible his shell once had the Reg GXI at some point?
its possible to transfer regs in UK after all
he must have some belief in it if he's so persistant
I assume he has a tax book to match the chassis number?

Did anybody happen to take a pic of the chassis plate/number?

Blind belief in the case of a genuine punter is one thing but someone who has written some kind of a book on M3's is something else especially when there is a history of his having written books on other rare/expensive cars and he then "happens" to find the rarest ones and a dispute arises with those who own the real thing. I would not have bothered with this if it was a misguided joe soap. This guy has form and is blacklisted amongst those in the know who pay huge sums for the real thing. I just thought it opportune to shine a light on the underbelly of our sport,what they get up to, the lengths they go to and the name of at least one of those who inhabit those murky depths. No better way than with a car with which we are all very familiar.
If it was the genuine shell it would be worth a multiple of what he was asking with or without the reg plates.

Clan
16-01-2012, 18:41
I believe it's a genuine prodrive shell, but its a reece shell ,I don't believe it's GXI. But at the end of the day, the guy can say what he wants as besides the forums no one else has challenged him and alls it would take is one very rich man to buy the car and legally make it GXI. After all how many legal STW201R's are there.

Martin
16-01-2012, 18:51
After all how many legal STW201R's are there.

none now

Clan
16-01-2012, 19:13
none now

Why what happened, Alan Watkins car and Ronnie Preston and the one in Fords loft. Some sort of legal battle?

bt52b
16-01-2012, 21:06
Not on sold list for Autosport auction
http://www.coys.co.uk/past-auctions.php?auctionID=8

koc
16-01-2012, 21:07
The real Deal in action!!!

http://youtu.be/ChciaZsdYwY

flatcrest500
16-01-2012, 21:25
Yer mans may have been some sorta prodrive car at a time,

Cage, fuel filler etc very similar to this car,

Mobil 1 Rally Challenge. Prodrive BMW M3 - YouTube

alan masterton
16-01-2012, 22:24
Not on sold list for Autosport auction
http://www.coys.co.uk/past-auctions.php?auctionID=8



Just checked that link to Coys.
Those are the results of last years auction ... Sat. Jan 15th. 2011.

No list of results from last weekend's auction up yet.

rasp
16-01-2012, 22:46
I just looked at the ad on www.rallycarsforsale.net......and i emailed him telling him that the car is a fake and that he would be committing a crime by attempting to sell it as the genuine car.......I suggest that everybody on this thread does the same....and f**k him.....i have seen cleaner hot rods

koc
16-01-2012, 23:31
Interesting that Coys do not have 2012 results available! I have heard from a forum member that was present, that the same vendor of 'GXI 9427' also had a BMW track car for sale!
Funnily enough, the same buyer who bought 'GXI 9427' also bought the track car at a price I believe to be in the range of £70,000. This sale did not go through either!!!!!
Funny that!!

BARNEY3
17-01-2012, 00:00
That guy he is a member on here
https://www.rallyforums.com/forum/member.php?u=12583

Eoin Sills
17-01-2012, 00:09
anyone reckon this is the car he is trying to sell on this thread https://www.rallyforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=304754#post304754

1987 group a M3 ex Delecour

Art McCarrick
17-01-2012, 00:15
anyone reckon this is the car he is trying to sell on this thread https://www.rallyforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=304754#post304754

1987 group a M3 ex Delecour

Steering wheel seems the same.....

bt52b
17-01-2012, 01:59
Just checked that link to Coys.
Those are the results of last years auction ... Sat. Jan 15th. 2011.

No list of results from last weekend's auction up yet.

oopppps :confused:


a Prodrive-built GpA rally 1987 M3, though now tatty and with the wrong (six-cylinder) engine, offered by the same owner, was £27,600.
http://www.classicandperformancecar.com/news/marketnews/277354/report_coys_autosport_international.html

caseyrallysport
18-01-2012, 07:23
I just looked at the ad on www.rallycarsforsale.net......and (http://www.rallycarsforsale.net......and) i emailed him telling him that the car is a fake and that he would be committing a crime by attempting to sell it as the genuine car.......I suggest that everybody on this thread does the same....and f**k him.....i have seen cleaner hot rods


I had a go off him in a couple of emails too, great craic. He's a cheeky little camel herder :laugh:

Paddy Forbes
18-01-2012, 14:46
I sent an email to a number of people listed on Coys website about two weeks ago, still waiting for a reply from someone. Says it all really :laugh:

koc
20-01-2012, 20:27
Denis Cronin strikes back!!!

http://www.rallycars.info/clas/index.php?ct=fsrc&md=details&id=60276

Calmc
20-01-2012, 21:26
Brilliant, dat will sort him!!:laugh:

Martin
20-01-2012, 21:39
brilliant

euw938v
20-01-2012, 23:56
This guy must be desparate to sell the car The Wan*er updated the ad again

http://www.rallycars.info/clas/index.php?ct=fsrc&md=details&id=60279

Tommy Hayes
20-01-2012, 23:59
The handbags are well and truly out

cargo
21-01-2012, 00:06
Can the authenticity not be verified by chassis numbers and Prodrive? Do both cars have the same chassis number also?

ryan-rallyvideos
21-01-2012, 00:10
This guy must be desparate to sell the car The Wan*er updated the ad again

http://www.rallycars.info/clas/index.php?ct=fsrc&md=details&id=60279

This could get very messy yet! I hope it gets sorted for Denis's sake! What happened with those MK2s a few yrs ago when 2 owners both said they were the same ex works car??

Tommy Hayes
21-01-2012, 00:17
Hate to ask this, but is prodrives failure to speak up n this subject possibly a little bit of revenge for Denis not selling the car back to them, which he had every right not to do Le me clarify

koc
21-01-2012, 00:19
IMHO, Taxbook/registration rules all.. Denis 1 ..Phillippe ..0

Totally apart from the rallying history...which speaks for itself!!!

koc
21-01-2012, 00:31
Prodrive, in the present day, do not represent what they did years ago. Then they were revolutionary engineers that made winning cars!
Admittedly they have done the same since with Subaru and now hopefully with Mini... Let us ask the general public that may have been Prodrive engineers to voice their opinion!!

###########oops forgot rhe poss of

koc
21-01-2012, 00:33
IMHO, Taxbook/registration rules all.. Denis 1 ..Phillippe ..0

Totally apart from the rallying history...which speaks for itself!!!

Bryan Murphy
21-01-2012, 09:16
Can the authenticity not be verified by chassis numbers and Prodrive? Do both cars have the same chassis number also?


Good point... Surely a phone call to Prodrive would just clear this matter up once and for all???

DavidN
21-01-2012, 09:38
Can the authenticity not be verified by chassis numbers and Prodrive? Do both cars have the same chassis number also?


maybe, but anything that can be made can be copied, its not for nothing that Prodrive tried to buy Cronins, if this car was right they'd buy it, if it was even 1/2 right someone would have snapped it up and restored it long before now, seems to me the guy knows he's caught and now wants to try to discredit Cronins car

Paddy1winger
21-01-2012, 09:53
its not for nothing that Prodrive tried to buy Cronins car i

I think that says alot

Clan
21-01-2012, 10:53
Prodrive, in the present day, do not represent what they did years ago. Then they were revolutionary engineers that made winning cars!
Admittedly they have done the same since with Subaru and now hopefully with Mini... Let us ask the general public that may have been Prodrive engineers to voice their opinion!!

###########oops forgot rhe poss of

Totally untrue and unfounded and your statement lacks any credibility and smacks of a little green eyed monster. As someone that deals with Prodrive on a professional basis and visits the factory I can tell you nothing has changed in Prodrive,they are highly professional to core and engineering wise they are way ahead of the competition as I also deal with them.

Tiger
21-01-2012, 11:48
Guys one thing ye haven't divulged on here , when Bertie bought that car off Prodrive im sure he was sold it as GXI 9427 , im sure he wasnt told that he was buying the number plate . Like if your spending that kind of money back in the day you would ask the question ' is that the Ex - Bernard Beguin car ? ' , if Prodrive said no then would they be committing some kind of fraud ? would you even buy the dam thing ??? , would you go into a reputable garage and the guy tell you that the plates on that car worth 80,000 to a 100,000 are not matching the chassis no ? .... We actually sold that chassis to a guy in the Lebanon . Also does anybody remember that car rallying in the Lebanon ? Im sure if it was Bertie would have herd about it - two cars around Europe with GXI 9427 on it ??? what would that do for the reputation of Prodrive at the time .
Also i dont think the details are going to be put out there by the Cronins about the car , as someone else said there it is very easy to copy stuff nowadays , but the Cronins do have the paper work reg book etc for it , i think those shells were made by some guy in the North and thats why they were regristered there does anybody know the name ? Also there are a few guys that worked at Prodrive at the time of the Bmw's have said that the original GXI 9427 belongs to Denis Cronin ...

Clan
21-01-2012, 11:57
Guys one thing ye haven't divulged on here , when Bertie bought that car off Prodrive im sure he was sold it as GXI 9427 , im sure he wasnt told that he was buying the number plate . Like if your spending that kind of money back in the day you would ask the question ' is that the Ex - Bernard Beguin car ? ' , if Prodrive said no then would they be committing some kind of fraud ? would you even buy the dam thing ??? , would you go into a reputable garage and the guy tell you that the plates on that car worth 80,000 to a 100,000 are not matching the chassis no ? .... We actually sold that chassis to a guy in the Lebanon . Also does anybody remember that car rallying in the Lebanon ? Im sure if it was Bertie would have herd about it - two cars around Europe with GXI 9427 on it ??? what would that do for the reputation of Prodrive at the time .
Also i dont think the details are going to be put out there by the Cronins about the car , as someone else said there it is very easy to copy stuff nowadays , but the Cronins do have the paper work reg book etc for it , i think those shells were made by some guy in the North and thats why they were regristered there does anybody know the name ? Also there are a few guys that worked at Prodrive at the time of the Bmw's have said that the original GXI 9427 belongs to Denis Cronin ...


The problem is this story has been going on for sometime in europe and no one legally challanged the guy so he persisted. This should have been nipped in the bud at the beginning or even two months ago when he advertised it for sale but it wasn't and it was let run and build up a head of steam and create doubts about GXI. Any blind dog in the street who even does the smallest bit of re-search will soon discover Denis has the real car. And if they continue their research will discover the fake M3 is NOT a fake it is indeed a Prodrive car, but it is NOT GXI. Legally challange this guy and it will put an end to it once and for all.

Paddy Boyce
21-01-2012, 12:28
This guy must be desparate to sell the car The Wan*er updated the ad again

http://www.rallycars.info/clas/index.php?ct=fsrc&md=details&id=60279

[QUOTE]
"GXI9427 Reg plate is currently a BMW 316 Year 1985 use by Prodrive on many cars during Prodrive programme. The car who was solod to Nabil Karam in 1988 was use in 1987. At this time the Cronin car was not built as he was built in 1988 confirmed by the Matter plate who is on the driver door. Now if you are friend of Harry Potter, may be it was possible, but if Potter is not your friend, a car currently built in 1988 cannot be rallied in 1987. All Prodrive experts known that hard rally cars of the year was sold at the end of the year to be replace by new one. Only a fool can claim the complet history of a REg Plate from a BMW 316 built from 1985. Of course, all papers can be send to everybody who will ask for it. AS you see on import papers to Lebanon, the car carry the Rothmans colour in 1988 Contact Name: Franc Contact Phone: 0033
[QUOTE]"


Motorcheck Report on GXI 9427

https://www.motorcheck.ie/report1_Choose.php

1117
21-01-2012, 13:48
The shells were not built by some guy in Northern Ireland as quoted by Tiger above. The cars carried northern Irish plates as they were not type approved and the way around this was to get northern Irish plates put on the car. It was the same for the Nissan 240RS-all those cars carried northern Irish plates.

CADDYE555
21-01-2012, 14:36
As a matter of interest how many proper group A M3's did prodrive build?

Noel157
21-01-2012, 15:31
The shells were not built by some guy in Northern Ireland as quoted by Tiger above. The cars carried northern Irish plates as they were not type approved and the way around this was to get northern Irish plates put on the car. It was the same for the Nissan 240RS-all those cars carried northern Irish plates.

Rory speaketh the truth.

Declan Stafford
21-01-2012, 15:33
*********

Tiger
21-01-2012, 16:15
The shells were not built by some guy in Northern Ireland as quoted by Tiger above. The cars carried northern Irish plates as they were not type approved and the way around this was to get northern Irish plates put on the car. It was the same for the Nissan 240RS-all those cars carried northern Irish plates.
Thats why i put the queston mark after it , i did hear of a name but cant remember it ill try and find out again , unless they were registered to this guy ?? If you say they were not type approved what does that mean ? I think there were only twelve cars built but again could be wrong ....:o:

Noel157
21-01-2012, 16:20
Thats why i put the queston mark after it , i did hear of a name but cant remember it ill try and find out again , unless they were registered to this guy ?? If you say they were not type approved what does that mean ? I think there were only twelve cars built but again could be wrong ....:o:

At the time if the cars were not type approved they would have had to go on a "Q" plate. Q plates are generally associated with rebuilt written-off cars that have been "re-alligned" or re-shelled and inspected. These rules did not apply in NI and you could basically registered anything. That's why many American cars had Northern registrations.
The guy you were referring to registered them for Prodrive as an NI address was required.

CADDYE555
21-01-2012, 16:35
The shells were not built by some guy in Northern Ireland as quoted by Tiger above. The cars carried northern Irish plates as they were not type approved and the way around this was to get northern Irish plates put on the car. It was the same for the Nissan 240RS-all those cars carried northern Irish plates.

Don't think they were all registered in northern Ireland. Snijer's drove an m3 reg D116 POV on selected European events.

guyfos
21-01-2012, 16:38
There seems to be a lad on boards.ie claiming to be the owner of the fake car. The language the poster used is very similar to that in the new add. I invited him to come on here and defend himself but just in case he doesent here's a link to the boards thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=76646746#post76646746

GKnight
21-01-2012, 16:48
Man is seriously obsessed with Harry Potter:laugh:

p hunter
21-01-2012, 21:34
Prob a silly question can you register a uk reg in the south ?? :confused:
as you can't do it the other way

BMC
21-01-2012, 23:15
Prob a silly question can you register a uk reg in the south ?? :confused:
as you can't do it the other way

No, you have to pay VRT if you want to change a UK plate to an Irish one. Thats the only way you can register it.

anto
22-01-2012, 11:39
Cronin car was built in 1988 and was use on track, not rally.
The plate GXI9427 is a BMW 316 from 1985.
The Matter number that you find on the bottom of entry door state that the car was built in 1988.
When the real car rally was sold oversea, they put back this fake registration number on this car.
Why they use a BMW 316 1985 Reg Number ? Easy as Prodrive bought Kit from BMW without any chassis number and papers, then they just pick up papers of crash cars and swap the papers on differents cars.
When you see Cronin car, open the door and search for Matter number plate, you will see it yourself if after all his big crash, he still keep the same shell.
Now if you are friend with Harry Potter, I will understand that a car built in 1988 actually rallied in 1987


Let s put the right questions and try to bring the right answers as I really think that the people here in this forum have a brain.
1 Cronin never demonstrate anythings and never show his papers.
Here the GXI9427 .
As everybody see, the papers for GXI9427 are a BMW 316 from 1985.
Everybody will agree that the car should have BMW M3 paper and if Cronin had a accident and hurt somebody, his insurance will not cover him because the realpapers don t belong to this car or put it simply, the papers are wrong as the car is not a 316 from 1985


Number 2, the car of Cronin was built in 1988 as the Matter Shell will confirm with his plate IF ONLY Cronin still have the original shell, as I understand, Cronin have crash the car badly many times and as the BMW is a monocoque, a lots of time, shell need to be replace. We are still waiting to see the plate Matter from Cronin car if he have one. If he have one, everybody will see that the car was built in 1988 and then demonstrate that Cronin have lie to all of us by claiming untrue history.
WHERE IS THE PHOTO of the plate, I ll garantee that Cronin will never show it but let see



The load of shite he is spewing over at boards!

fatboymotorsport
22-01-2012, 11:52
can anyone discredit what he is saying about the shell with photo evidence and not word of mouth. ???

Paddy1winger
22-01-2012, 12:19
It is still blatantly obvious the cage in his car which he is selling is.completely different to that which was in the beguin car when it one in tour de course. It just seems like this guy is out to discredit cronins car.

anto
22-01-2012, 13:09
Number 3
Today words means nothing compare to the facts from 1988. Nabil Karam bought a use rally car from previous season and receive it in the Rothmans colour who was the sponsor of the 1987 season, here papers from Customs in Lebanon


Number 4
We never claims that 025 had GXI9427, we just claim that the car was rallied in 1987 under this registration.


Here the invoice from Prodrive, as you see, they sold a rally car , not a recce car. Prodrive known better than everyone who was what .
And look the price who was very expensive. Did Nabil Karam is a idiot ?, I don t think so. This is real fact from 1988


Now, until real evidence from Cronin with photos, documentation, etc, this cae for me is close. People can claim what they want, to be credible, they need to bring evidence, not gossips.

And you will see, Cronin will never bring evidence because he have nothings except the Reg GXI9427 who belong to a BMW 316 from 1985. Let hope that he will never hurt somebody because in this case, ask your insurance company, the insurance contract will be invalide.


I m not going to repeat myself,
A CAR BUILT IN 1988 CANNOT HAVE BEEN RALLIED IN 1987.
It s so easy, ask Cronin a photo of the Matter plate to prove me wrong or stop your hallucinations please


He really is out to discredit Cronins car

anto
22-01-2012, 13:28
Thread has been closed on boards.ie

David Ryan
22-01-2012, 14:21
someone should arrange to buy it! go meet up with him and print the reg into his head! D""khead!

Paddy Boyce
22-01-2012, 14:50
As someone posted on Boards.ie,before it was removed,if Prodrive were looking to buy back the Original Car,I'm sure they were aware that this specimen:busted: was for sale.
The Fact that they didn't buy it should clear up any Confusion.;)

Ben Denny
22-01-2012, 17:49
As someone posted on Boards.ie,before it was removed,if Prodrive were looking to buy back the Original Car,I'm sure they were aware that this specimen:busted: was for sale.
The Fact that they didn't buy it should clear up any Confusion.;)

are prodrive in a position to buy anything at the moment??

Paddy Forbes
22-01-2012, 18:37
He seems very keen to get Cronin to put copies of all his documentation up online for some reason :rolleyes:

Podge Newe
22-01-2012, 19:00
someone should arrange to buy it! go meet up with him and print the reg into his head! D""khead!

or else... WNK3R

20valver
22-01-2012, 19:23
Came across an interesting observation made on another website
by someone who knows the Prodrive M3 works shell's intimately.

same picture shown above but with the joint of the rear cage diagonal
to main hoop circled..........

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/mck287/DSCF0111.jpg

and then a picture of a genuine works prepared shell for comparison.........

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/mck287/2007prodrivepics097ap1.jpg

100% correct. Link to pic of Beguin, cage is not same as fake!!

http://hyppyrally.blogspot.com/2010/12/history-of-world-rally-championship_31.html

half way down page.

Paddy Boyce
22-01-2012, 20:06
[QUOTE]
"Last i knew 4-5 years ago there were 2 M3 rally cars together in Lebanon. One original Gp A car and a Gp N type car with bolt-in roll cage & with a 6 cylinder E36 M3 engine fitted. The car being discussed here is surely the latter..."[QUOTE];)

Taken from another Forum.

http://www.forum-auto.com/sport-auto/photo-sport-auto/sujet378080.htm

20valver
22-01-2012, 20:12
From same forum site, guy himself was on.

http://www.forum-auto.com/sport-auto/photo-sport-auto/sujet378080-105.htm

looks like he's after realising he's bought a pup and trying to off-load now ;)

Dave O Mahony
22-01-2012, 21:34
Its as simple as this cronin has said notting about this topic and has not claimed anything about his own car. He is keeping it and for that reason only its fair to say every one knows where the real car is!!!!!!:)

20valver
22-01-2012, 21:53
Its as simple as this cronin has said notting about this topic and has not claimed anything about his own car. He is keeping it and for that reason only its fair to say every one knows where the real car is!!!!!!:)

Yes and no.

I think anyone with half a brain knows where the original car is but at the same time, it would not be wise to sit back and let someone taint the provenance of what is, and will always be an historic and very valuable car. This needs legal action to protect an asset.

Eoin Sills
22-01-2012, 23:00
Its as simple as this cronin has said notting about this topic and has not claimed anything about his own car. He is keeping it and for that reason only its fair to say every one knows where the real car is!!!!!!:)

Id think this is Dennis having his word on the matter simple and straight to the point

http://www.rallycarsforsale.net/

Olczyk Philippe
23-01-2012, 07:44
Hello everybody,
Why it s so difficult to see the papers or Matter plate for Cronin car ?
As everybody known Cronin car have been damage badly a fews times, may be he have been reshell, I don t known but would like to see some good photos of it.
The plate GXI 9427 is a BMW 316 from 1985 and when you have a BMW M3 built in 1988, I don t think that you can do that.

I m sure that most of you are intelligent but nobody answer the question of how it s possible that a car built in 1988 was rallied in 1987. Now you can continue to
claim funny things but intelligent people demonstrate with facts or explain to me that Harry Potter was there .
CRONIN car is not TDC 1987 car and here my email [email protected]
If you want to fight with me for this fact, take a laywer, provide photos of Cronin car, we will go to Matter ( IF HE STILL HAVE THE ORIGINAL SHELL WHICH I DOUBT TODAY ) and the world will see that Cronin lie to you .
It s simple to clear the sky if your intentions are honest.
I m waiting Cronin photos, documentation and I will prove 100 % that I m right.
But Cronin will never contact me, because he known the truth.
You want to defend Cronin ?, contact him and tell him to contact me with photos. I m open to discussion, but I did contact him 3 years ago and he never provide any photos to me for the Prodrive book that I ve made , WHY ?

All the papers are at your disposition if you send me email.
We have invoice from Prodrive, import papers from Lebanon, papers 316 BMW from 1985 for GXI9427, etc.
Now, I m waiting photos of Cronin car for 3 years....

Olczyk Philippe
23-01-2012, 07:46
Can the authenticity not be verified by chassis numbers and Prodrive? Do both cars have the same chassis number also?

No, chassis number of both cars are differents, they just use the same registration plate from a BMW 316 from 1985. In case of a accident, I don t known what going to happen rallied a car with falses papers

Olczyk Philippe
23-01-2012, 07:49
Man is seriously obsessed with Harry Potter:laugh:

Harry Potter is English or Irish ? I m not the one who claim that a car built in 1988 drove in 1987 !

Olczyk Philippe
23-01-2012, 07:55
so, we're all agreed its a fake
but just giving him the benefit of the doubt for a sec, maybe he actually does believe his car is the real GXI?
Is it possible his shell once had the Reg GXI at some point?
its possible to transfer regs in UK after all
he must have some belief in it if he's so persistant
I assume he has a tax book to match the chassis number?

Did anybody happen to take a pic of the chassis plate/number?

Factory Prodrive M3 was all using Papers from crash car then, only a Prodrive plate was on it and when a car was sold oversea, they just keep the REG Number for the new car, it s very simple to understand.
1987 Car was 5 speed and small 275 CV, 1988 was 6 Speeds and 300 cv plus new shell stiffer or lighter, depend where you rally the car.
Prodrive have 36 Number of cars, include recce car, rally et tourisme cars.
In reality, only 10 rally cars built but you don t have 10 REG number which means ......
Everythings is explain in my book with photo graphic proofs

Gerard Mc Carron
23-01-2012, 07:56
Harry Potter is English or Irish ? I m not the one who claim that a car built in 1988 drove in 1987 !

Hey Olcyzk, answer this question, WHY was your car not sold at the Auto Sport show in the NEC if its original?

Why did Prodrive not buy it off you?

They are only interested in the ORIGINAL.

Olczyk Philippe
23-01-2012, 08:04
I believe it's a genuine prodrive shell, but its a reece shell ,I don't believe it's GXI. But at the end of the day, the guy can say what he wants as besides the forums no one else has challenged him and alls it would take is one very rich man to buy the car and legally make it GXI. After all how many legal STW201R's are there.

Thank for your comments but you forget a very little point without importance.
Prodrive have sold this car in 1988 as a rally car as you see on the invoice.
Are you now going to tell me that Prodrive lie ? Are you not going to believe Prodrive.
I m very sorry gentleman but the invoice from Prodrive is the only thing that I believe, internet gossip by people who never saw a real Prodrive and you don t understand the "80 area" practice have less value that a penny.

Then you can claim what you want, we all known that Elvis is alive and that Michael Jackson is somewhere in Ireland :laugh:

Olczyk Philippe
23-01-2012, 08:09
Hey Olcyzk, answer this question, WHY was your car not sold at the Auto Sport show in the NEC if its original?

Why did Prodrive not buy it off you?

They are only interested in the ORIGINAL.

AT 40 000 £, nobody bid on the FOCUS WRC from Mc Rae, did he means that the value is less than 40 £, of course not.The car Focus is for sale today at 100 000
£
The 6R4 Senna , nobody bid at 40 000 £, did he means that the value is less than 40 £ ? , of course not

And M3 is sold today
Still waiting photos of Cronin car, how long I need to wait ? 10 years ? to prove to you that he lie to the irish fans

Gerard Mc Carron
23-01-2012, 08:14
AT 40 000 £, nobody bid on the FOCUS WRC from Mc Rae, did he means that the value is less than 40 £, of course not.The car Focus is for sale today at 100 000
£
The 6R4 Senna , nobody bid at 40 000 £, did he means that the value is less than 40 £ ? , of course not

And M3 is sold today
Still waiting photos of Cronin car, how long I need to wait ? 10 years ? to prove to you that he lie to the irish fans

Listen Mr. Phillipe

The ONLY reason your scrap heap wasn't bought is because it's a FAKE.

rasp
23-01-2012, 08:19
Harry Potter is English or Irish ? I m not the one who claim that a car built in 1988 drove in 1987 !

Oh C,mon Mr Phillippe....how dare you!!!!everybody knows that Harry Potter is from Hogwarts!!!!:laugh:.....

Clan
23-01-2012, 08:26
It's this simple, you claim the GXI was sold to the Lebanon in early 1988 while in Rothmans Colours. How is this possible, firstly GXI was not in ROthmans colours in 1988 as it had been repainted in late 1987 into Bastos colours, you can check this with Prodrive employees at the time they will confirm. During 1988 while you say the car was in the Lebanon, Prodrive were running the car for Patrick Snijers in the European championship Why would they run a car they had apparently sold, do remember they would have had to produce the log book for scrutiny, but how could they have the log book you say it was in the Lebanon. At the end of 1988 the car was sold to Bertie Fisher, again if you check with the Prodrive employees at the time they will also confirm this as they jointly looked after the car with Sydney Meeke Motorsport a full pictorial history of the car is available since then. I was also asked was it possible if a car was Re shelled by Prodrive that the old car kept it's identity and the answer was NO. I also asked would they take the cage out of the old shell and put it into the new shell, and replace it with a Reece shell again the answer
was no. At the end of the day, you do not have the log book for GXI and you can claim and counter claim, no one has to show you any documents as no one has to prove anything to you. You are selling a car for 50k which is worth many times that price, if as you say it is real why have BMW Not bought it for there museum in Munich and why have Prodrive not bought it after all they
are selling two, yes two customer spec M3's for between 120k and 140kand one is a rebuilt Reece car.

Ps Cronin is not misleading anyone, what you are claiming is Prodrive committed fraud by selling the same car twice. Take that up with the Police.

Hail to the Thief
23-01-2012, 08:46
I could be wearing my conspiracy theory nut-job hat here but I supposie its not possible that the reason for looking to see the chassis plates on Cronin's car is to copy them?

Olczyk Philippe
23-01-2012, 08:46
YOU STILL NOT GET IT, GXI 9427 is BMW 316 from 1985, THE REG Number was transfering on 2 or 3 differents cars. Believe what you want, and say Hello to Elvis

rasp
23-01-2012, 08:49
YOU STILL NOT GET IT, GXI 9427 is BMW 316 from 1985, THE REG Number was transfering on 2 or 3 differents cars. Believe what you want, and say Hello to Elvis
The king is dead baby....had nobody told you???...or is he still alive in never never land where you live with peter pan and your genuine "works car"......fu**ing hot rod heap of scrap!!

Olczyk Philippe
23-01-2012, 09:02
the king is dead baby

the king cannot be dead as in ireland, people believe that a car built in 1988 did actually rally in 1987

the king cannot be dead as in ireland, people believe that because you have the reg number of a bmw 316 from 1985, you can claim the complet history of this reg number, and by the way, when you see elvis, tell him to say to santa claus that i didn t see him this year, did he was sick ? and my regards to michael J :laugh:

Olczyk Philippe
23-01-2012, 09:05
I like the great education and the polite posts of this forum, this show of well some of you are educated. Never mind, all Irish people are not like this...I hope as I see some clever post from people who don t believe in Santa Claus. And please respect PRODRIVE and their invoice

Ben Denny
23-01-2012, 09:06
nav is back

David Ryan
23-01-2012, 09:07
You are nothing but a con artist. Well a wanna-be anyway ha. All you can do is come on the internet and talk shit about elvis and santa and stuff? Places for you my friend and there's a place for the original works bmw aswell. . Inside denis cronins shed where it is and will remain to stay.

Olczyk Philippe
23-01-2012, 09:10
You are nothing but a con artist. Well a wanna-be anyway ha. All you can do is come on the internet and talk pineapple about elvis and santa and stuff? Places for you my friend and there's a place for the original works bmw aswell. . Inside denis cronins shed where it is and will remain to stay.

Thanks for Prodrive, did the invoice was real or it s vision ?
You are very polite, of course, it s more easy to insult when you hyde behind a pseudo like a little girl

Niall O Sullivan
23-01-2012, 09:11
Did people ever think this fella bought the car and could have paid big money for it and is now trying to sell it onto to some else and get his money back and the real car is still in West Cork.By keep arguing with Olczyk we will make that REPLICA famous like Mador in Lighting McQueen

Pat McHugh
23-01-2012, 09:12
YOU STILL NOT GET IT, GXI 9427 is BMW 316 from 1985, THE REG Number was transfering on 2 or 3 differents cars. Believe what you want, and say Hello to Elvis

Mate are you for real,and you want to be taking seriously,how do you expect this to be done if you continue with childish references to Harry potter and elvis,this is a serious matter and you find it amusing when hard facts are put to you you reply with immature references.

Further more I find it odd that you have to come on to forums and give us the same scripted bull.if your so confident you would not have to do this.at least Denis Cronin has had the decentcey no to lower himself to your degrading level on Internet forums.

All I feel your at is trying to do is discredit two of this country's rally family's in the cronins and the late Bertie fisher,it is not the first time your name has sprung up in unusual circumstances with the originality of a car.

guyfos
23-01-2012, 09:13
What confuses me is that this lad keeps showing this prodrive invoice and saying look I have an invoice it proves I have the car! All this proves is that someone bought a car of them in 88. Is it an m3? Probably looking at the price they paid for it. Is it the one that won Corsica? Well I dunno because it doesn't say what it was. Yer man seems to think that since he has the invoice from the sale in 88 that he has the legondary gxi but I don't think he realises that more than 1 prodrive group a m3 would have been would in 88!

I would ask you to answer the questions asked here. No beating round the bush with the same replies every time. Explain to us the dodgy look of it. The **** poor preparation inside the car and the fact that the roll cage is inconsistent with the car used in the 87 Corsica rally and other prodrive m3's

Just one last thought. Rally cars have a tough life. Wear and tare plus the odd crash means that very few original parts from a car as old as cronins remain on the car. So to me however owned the tax book owns the car and that person is Denis cronin.

Gerard Mc Carron
23-01-2012, 09:54
AT 40 000 £, nobody bid on the FOCUS WRC from Mc Rae, did he means that the value is less than 40 £, of course not.The car Focus is for sale today at 100 000
£
The 6R4 Senna , nobody bid at 40 000 £, did he means that the value is less than 40 £ ? , of course not

And M3 is sold today
Still waiting photos of Cronin car, how long I need to wait ? 10 years ? to prove to you that he lie to the irish fans

Answer this question Olczyk, WHY did the top bid of £24,000 that was put on your M3 not stand, WHY did this individual refuse to go through with the sale?

Olczyk Philippe
23-01-2012, 10:29
Answer this question Olczyk, WHY did the top bid of £24,000 that was put on your M3 not stand, WHY did this individual refuse to go through with the sale?


ANWER THE question Gerard, where is the photos of Cronin, Where ?
If he believe what Cronin say himself, why he don t show the proof ?

Let s stop this game as I m busy and have no time to play with internet experts.
MATTER is here in France, send the photos and we will have a answer from MATTER, but nobody will never send the photos because Cronin known that I m right. I m here, I m waiting the photos, if you cannot provide the photos, then go take a beer with Potter

guyfos
23-01-2012, 10:46
ANWER THE question Gerard, where is the photos of Cronin, Where ?
If he believe what Cronin say himself, why he don t show the proof ?

Let s stop this game as I m busy and have no time to play with internet experts.
MATTER is here in France, send the photos and we will have a answer from MATTER, but nobody will never send the photos because Cronin known that I m right. I m here, I m waiting the photos, if you cannot provide the photos, then go take a beer with Potter

Cronin is the one who has the high ground here with a documented photo history of the car from 1987 to now which was never in question. He does not need to prove himself as the registration is his. Who the hell cares if its registered as a 316. It is the genuine gxi plate which won Corsica. You keep saying you have chassis number 025 but show me the proof it was that chassis number that won the rally because i can sure as hell tell you that gxi did. You keep disregarding any questions that revolve about the preparation of your car and how the cage doesn't match up.

You say cronins car was built in 88 but where is your proof to back that statement up?

One last thing. You said yourself prodrive sell there cars on the year after they used them for the big rallies as a works effort. So why then would they sell a newly built m3 to Bertie fisher in 1988 when he got it?

I would start to back up fairly quickly if i were you or else you could find yourself in a lot of trouble with the law as your starting to annoy a lot of this countries rally fans not to mention dragging the name of 2 of irelands best known and most well respected rallying families.

guyfos
23-01-2012, 10:48
ANWER THE question Gerard, where is the photos of Cronin, Where ?
If he believe what Cronin say himself, why he don t show the proof ?

Let s stop this game as I m busy and have no time to play with internet experts.
MATTER is here in France, send the photos and we will have a answer from MATTER, but nobody will never send the photos because Cronin known that I m right. I m here, I m waiting the photos, if you cannot provide the photos, then go take a beer with Potter

Actually. How about you show us your matter plate then wheres that picture seeing as your so interested in cronins?

Clan
23-01-2012, 10:48
ANWER THE question Gerard, where is the photos of Cronin, Where ?
If he believe what Cronin say himself, why he don t show the proof ?

Let s stop this game as I m busy and have no time to play with internet experts.
MATTER is here in France, send the photos and we will have a answer from MATTER, but nobody will never send the photos because Cronin known that I m right. I m here, I m waiting the photos, if you cannot provide the photos, then go take a beer with Potter

You still do not get it do you, Cronin owns the log book to GXI9427, even if it is registered as a BMW 316 so he owns the car not you, your false advertising with a picture of the car with the reg number is illegal. Now no one in their right mind would send you photo's or anyone for that matter of any details of a famous rally car, why would someone be so stupid, next time I get spam I am going to send the spamer all my bank details so he can copy them. This is nothing to do with Cronin, he has a car from Prodrive with full accountable history from the day Prodrive sold it to Bertie Fisher and all the owners since then to the present day you do not. In order for Bertie Fisher to tax and insure the car he would have needed to be the owner, in order for the tax office to recognise this PRODRIVE would have need to fill out the log book to GXI9427 and send it to the DVLA with the change of ownership this been one Bertie Fisher. If you have claim you need to take it up with a Prodrive as so far you are accusing them of making false Documents, selling a duplicate car and breaking countless UK mot laws. Your fight is not with Cronin it with with Prodrive.

alan_k
23-01-2012, 10:50
ANWER THE question Gerard, where is the photos of Cronin, Where ?
If he believe what Cronin say himself, why he don t show the proof ?

Let s stop this game as I m busy and have no time to play with internet experts.
MATTER is here in France, send the photos and we will have a answer from MATTER, but nobody will never send the photos because Cronin known that I m right. I m here, I m waiting the photos, if you cannot provide the photos, then go take a beer with Potter

Grow up you clown. Anybody that knows anything knows where the original car is including you. That fact is you've bought a poorly copied version of the original and now your trying to discredit the genuine article and genuine owner. If your car was the original it would have been sold 10 times over by now.
So best thing you can do is chalk this one down to experience and give it up

DavidN
23-01-2012, 10:52
YOU STILL NOT GET IT, GXI 9427 is BMW 316 from 1985, THE REG Number was transfering on 2 or 3 differents cars. Believe what you want, and say Hello to Elvis


A couple of points to remember Olczyk, a car in the UK can us an older registration but not a newer one, so what you keep refering to about 316s from 1985 doesnt mean anything.
Also if a car is reshelled into a new shell it keeps its origional identity, it is entirely possible that this happened in the life of GXI 9427 and if it has it does not alter the cars identity.

Einne Naughton
23-01-2012, 11:12
Olczyk Philippe - Has PRODRIVE offered you a brand new S12 or S14 in exchange for your ''M3'' ? ... I didn't think so :cool:http://www.rallycarsforsale.net/photos/p60276n1.jpg



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Podge Newe
23-01-2012, 12:37
Answer this question Olczyk, WHY did the top bid of £24,000 that was put on your M3 not stand, WHY did this individual refuse to go through with the sale?

Was that not one of his buddies who put in that bid ?
Still no explanation as to why the Reg plate was covered over later in the morning at the NEC which I clearly showed in photos previously posted.

909
23-01-2012, 13:04
You lot are worse for even arguing with him and giving him the time of day, oh and Olczyc I've just been told Cronin says he wants you to come over and photograph his car for him...book a flight to Cork and let us know what time your arriving, I'm sure there be a few people there to meet you...

Olczyk Philippe
23-01-2012, 13:13
A couple of points to remember Olczyk, a car in the UK can us an older registration but not a newer one, so what you keep refering to about 316s from 1985 doesnt mean anything.
Also if a car is reshelled into a new shell it keeps its origional identity, it is entirely possible that this happened in the life of GXI 9427 and if it has it does not alter the cars identity.

Here we are, thank you for your confirmation that the car have been reshell, now I understand why photos are not available.
It s your opinion that the car keep it s original identity, I disagree, because a reshell car is not more original. And you see that I stay polite which is not the case of the magority of the people here, but the fews clowns who insult me are not the silent magority who agree with me.

Olczyk Philippe
23-01-2012, 13:15
You lot are worse for even arguing with him and giving him the time of day, oh and Olczyc I've just been told Cronin says he wants you to come over and photograph his car for him...book a flight to Cork and let us know what time your arriving, I'm sure there be a few people there to meet you...

To take a photo of a reshell car have no interest for me, but thank you for the invitation. As a reshell car, he don t have anymore the Matter plate, then, it s rebody car, no interest for me. Thank You

fatboymotorsport
23-01-2012, 13:18
Where did anyone say Cronins car was reshelled. ???

David O Flaherty
23-01-2012, 13:35
Hello everybody,
Why it s so difficult to see the papers or Matter plate for Cronin car ?
As everybody known Cronin car have been damage badly a fews times, may be he have been reshell, I don t known but would like to see some good photos of it.
The plate GXI 9427 is a BMW 316 from 1985 and when you have a BMW M3 built in 1988, I don t think that you can do that.

I m sure that most of you are intelligent but nobody answer the question of how it s possible that a car built in 1988 was rallied in 1987. Now you can continue to
claim funny things but intelligent people demonstrate with facts or explain to me that Harry Potter was there .
CRONIN car is not TDC 1987 car and here my email [email protected]
If you want to fight with me for this fact, take a laywer, provide photos of Cronin car, we will go to Matter ( IF HE STILL HAVE THE ORIGINAL SHELL WHICH I DOUBT TODAY ) and the world will see that Cronin lie to you .
It s simple to clear the sky if your intentions are honest.
I m waiting Cronin photos, documentation and I will prove 100 % that I m right.
But Cronin will never contact me, because he known the truth.
You want to defend Cronin ?, contact him and tell him to contact me with photos. I m open to discussion, but I did contact him 3 years ago and he never provide any photos to me for the Prodrive book that I ve made , WHY ?

All the papers are at your disposition if you send me email.
We have invoice from Prodrive, import papers from Lebanon, papers 316 BMW from 1985 for GXI9427, etc.
Now, I m waiting photos of Cronin car for 3 years....

You my French friend are nothing but a con artist,who has juat realised that you bought a total scrapheap of a rally car and you are now trying to offload it to another unsuspecting customer
What you should be doing is swallowing your pride and getting on with the fact that you have a total dud.One thing you should not be doing is trying to discredit another mans property.What you are doing is totally illegal and sooner or later you will be found out.
You are totally dillusional,you can go on about log books and other things but the fact of the matter is you do not hold the log book for that car.
Do me a favour and spend the day on google and there you will find your answers,photos,forums all you need is there.Please do not go ringing prodrive and save yourself the embarrasment.

Now please go back under whatever rock you came out of and do everybody a massive favour..

Au-revoir you clown..

Pat McHugh
23-01-2012, 13:36
Here we are, thank you for your confirmation that the car have been reshell, now I understand why photos are not available.
It s your opinion that the car keep it s original identity, I disagree, because a reshell car is not more original. And you see that I stay polite which is not the case of the magority of the people here, but the fews clowns who insult me are not the silent magority who agree with me.

Your a bright lad aren't ya talking word of a person who has nothing to do with the car as gospel,you are grasping at straws

Please answer this for us

Have you talked to prodrive and Denis Cronin on this issue and please answer this in a genuine fashion if you can

Or have you directed all your issues through Internet forums

end over end
23-01-2012, 13:42
ok so is everybody missing the obvious here, mr. harry potter fans' skip has the prodrive chassis no. p88/025 now does this not mean his car was built in 88, car number 25??
as for the car being taxed as a 316, m3's wernt available as a proper uk model, hense the need to type approve, it was an easier process in n. ireland hense the ni plates on many of them. right up until recently it was common practice to register rallycars as the basic model road version, even a few works focus were registered as galaxy's if i remember correctly

Tiger
23-01-2012, 13:58
ok so is everybody missing the obvious here, mr. harry potter fans' skip has the prodrive chassis no. p88/025 now does this not mean his car was built in 88, car number 25??
as for the car being taxed as a 316, m3's wernt available as a proper uk model, hense the need to type approve, it was an easier process in n. ireland hense the ni plates on many of them. right up until recently it was common practice to register rallycars as the basic model road version, even a few works focus were registered as galaxy's if i remember correctly
The P88 in the P88/025 does not mean it was an chassis made in 1988 that is for sure.Why Prodrive chose them numbers i dont know ....

Tiger
23-01-2012, 14:08
Just another thing on the roll cage when a few people inspected that BMW three series over at Coys last week it was some kind of bolt in job , a proper Prodrive M3 has the cage behind the seats coming down on top of the suspension turrets and than weather its coming down on to the floor or through the floor but it actually holds up the rear diff cradle underneath the car . Now i hope i explained that in a way that everybody might understand bearing in mind that i never saw a proper Prodrive M3 and if anybody can explain it better please do ;) but that Three series BMW over in Coys did not have that last week ....

anto
23-01-2012, 14:12
Mod hat on

No personal abuse. You can say anything else but please dont call names or any abuse. We are not children.

Thanks

Clan
23-01-2012, 14:20
Just another thing on the roll cage when a few people inspected that BMW three series over at Coys last week it was some kind of bolt in job , a proper Prodrive M3 has the cage behind the seats coming down on top of the suspension turrets and than weather its coming down on to the floor or through the floor but it actually holds up the rear diff cradle underneath the car . Now i hope i explained that in a way that everybody might understand bearing in mind that i never saw a proper Prodrive M3 and if anybody can explain it better please do ;) but that Three series BMW over in Coys did not have that last week ....

The cage in the car shown at Coys stand is exactly the same as the cage in the Russian brothers Reece car recently found in Russia and converted into a full group A car by Prodrive, it had bolt in cage. The Coys shell is a proper group A shell, but a with a Reece car cage and it never had the full group A Cage in it.

Steve White
23-01-2012, 14:31
Sorry to come into this conversation late (and I'm not trying to name call), but Olczyk Philippe: are you the same Olczyk Philippe who ripped off the RS200.org site and created a completely fake website purely for the purpose of selling another "genuine" car?

If you are I wouldn't believe a single word in any of your posts: or that the car is anything but a heap you are trying to palm off on someone as a genuine rally car.

rasp
23-01-2012, 15:00
Sorry to come into this conversation late (and I'm not trying to name call), but Olczyk Philippe: are you the same Olczyk Philippe who ripped off the RS200.org site and created a completely fake website purely for the purpose of selling another "genuine" car?

If you are I wouldn't believe a single word in any of your posts: or that the car is anything but a heap you are trying to palm off on someone as a genuine rally car.
The Plot thickens!!!

S Mc Caffrey
23-01-2012, 15:11
Crikey do ya know this Thread is way better than any story ya would get on the TV at the moment... :)

Cian Corbett
23-01-2012, 15:18
:laugh: type Olczyk's name into google...it brings up some remarkable stories!

http://www.johnstarkeycars.com/pages/articles/articles_19.html

food for thought...

ryan-rallyvideos
23-01-2012, 15:28
:laugh: type Olczyk's name into google...it brings up some remarkable stories!

http://www.johnstarkeycars.com/pages/articles/articles_19.html

food for thought...

Funny no mention of Harry Potter OR Elvis when he was question about the Porsche!!!

Steve White
23-01-2012, 15:52
Just to fill you in on the whole RS200 debacle, the RS200 registry used to be viewable on the domain http://www.rs200.org up until a few years ago. This site contained all the known information (as compiled by a chap called Justin Smith) on each chassis number RS200, its current owner and location.

An argument erupted between the seller of a specific RS200 (who was later revealed as Olczyk Philippe) and those who had compiled the information on RS200.org with regards to the history of the aforementioned car. Olczyk Philippe disagreed with what the RS200.org site stated, but evidence all pointed to the facts on there being correct.

This resulted in Olczyk Philippe copying all the data from RS200.org (pictures, text, page layout... everything) and setting up an identical site at RS200.com: except all references to Justin Smith were replaced with Olczyk Philippe and all reference to RS200.org were replaced with RS200.com. And of course the questioned data on the RS200 for sale was tweaked on Olczyk Philippe's version of the site according to his "history" of the car.

Olczyk Philippe later published a book (the bulk of which comprised of data stolen from the RS200.org site) and he continues to run RS200.com and an RS200 fan page on Facebook. You'll note that the sections of RS200.com put together by Olczyk Philippe himself are written with the same grasp of English as the the poster on here. As Cian Corbett points out as well, if you Google his name it crops up on a number of forums next to a number of questionable "barn find" and "rare" racing cars. All seems a mighty coincidence to me...

As a consequence of the data theft and site duplication, RS200.org underwent a major facelift and is now a secure forum rather than the "open" site it was before.

JOB
23-01-2012, 16:26
Philippe – its great to see you on here. I am intrigued by your references to Elvis, Santa and Harry Potter – it might just shed some light on the world you inhabit. Furthermore it lends some credence to those who believe that your literary endeavours should be stocked on the fiction shelves rather than with the motoring or reference books.
Let’s not kid ourselves here Philippe – what you are selling is an invoice from Prodrive. You have tacked on a car to add value. At best the car may have history, at worst it’s a handful of parts on wheels. We used to live in a fantasy world here too Philippe – it was called the Celtic Tiger. We had cheap French and German money and we had more World Rally Cars per head of population than anywhere else in the world. So we know what ex works car cost. At €24,000 it is somewhere between one and two zeros shy of the true value. I suspect you were hoping that the current owner of the real car would give you easy money just to go away.
Philippe – coming on this forum was not a great idea. It reminds me of my cat who catches a mouse after his meal – he’s not hungry but will play with it anyway. Most of the contributors on here , myself included, haven’t €24 to spend on your car not to mind €24,000 – they do have time on their hands and you are a handy diversion and possibly an outlet for their frustrations.
You picked the wrong country and the wrong car. Us Irish will con one another and take pleasure in it but we close ranks and will defend one another from outsiders.
The car is far too well known in this country – I would even go so far as to say that it is more cherished for its history in this country than its links with the World Championship.
If you can persuade Sarkosy and Merkyl to let us have more cheap money we will buy your car. Otherwise it might be better to sell on the “spares on wheels” for what it is and put the “Invoice” up on ebay. Just make sure that you get Dave Richards to autograph it as that will add value – I will put an opening bid of €24 on it.

PS - Anyone got a lend of €24 ?

anto
23-01-2012, 17:18
I dont know Denis or anyone important in this..

But could someone pass on NOT to post any paper work online. By the sounds of this he will just copy them and then pass it off that he found the logbook.

guyfos
23-01-2012, 17:40
Can someone change the thread title to include that in it?

j belton
23-01-2012, 18:22
as someone just reading all posts it would seem he is trying to wind people up, so that some one may put up some paperwork or pics of paperwork so that he can then copy it. i saw the car at coys and does not look like the real thing to me, it looks like a bad rally car build with a lot of road car trim in it.
however i would like him to pick the lottery numbers for me as he does seem to be able to find these rare cars ??? or so he would like to think ???

Eoin Sills
23-01-2012, 18:28
I dont know Denis or anyone important in this..

But could someone pass on NOT to post any paper work online. By the sounds of this he will just copy them and then pass it off that he found the logbook.

was thinking the same thing, he seems pretty persistent to get Dennis to put the pictures up. The less information anyone puts up here about the Real Car that Dennis has the better

Wobbles
23-01-2012, 18:33
Did anyone call the police when the car was in the UK. Surely they would be interested in a car being sold on false plates

Clan
23-01-2012, 18:48
Did anyone call the police when the car was in the UK. Surely they would be interested in a car being sold on false plates

Funny you should mention that, I spoke to one of Scotland Yards finest today, explained the situation and the upshot is if the car is in the UK they will lift it, the owner then has the opportunity to produce the tax book within 21 days, failure to do so means the car gets crushed. So if anyone knows where it is, let me know and I will get it lifted and crushed.

John Daly
23-01-2012, 18:49
this guy is also on the s14.net forum where he claims he owns EDZ 4346. on 1 of his posts he says he has the entry form from monte carlo rally and the original papers from prodrive and the registration of EDZ 4346. when another member asked if it was the real EDZ or a replica our friend got very defensive.

JOB
23-01-2012, 18:53
this guy is also on the s14.net forum where he claims he owns EDZ 4346. on 1 of his posts he says he has the entry form from monte carlo rally and the original papers from prodrive and the registration of EDZ 4346. when another member asked if it was the real EDZ or a replica our friend got very defensive.

He probably has the genuine letter that Santa wrote back to him.

You have to give him this - he sure did brighten up a boring month of January.

John Daly
23-01-2012, 19:05
He probably has the genuine letter that Santa wrote back to him.

You have to give him this - he sure did brighten up a boring month of January.

he's good buddies with santa, and not forgetting elvis and harry potter of course.

colm8484
23-01-2012, 19:25
Funny you should mention that, I spoke to one of Scotland Yards finest today, explained the situation and the upshot is if the car is in the UK they will lift it, the owner then has the opportunity to produce the fax book within 21 days, failure to do so means the car gets crushed. So if anyone knows where it is, let me know and I will get it lifted and crushed.


Surely it wud be a sin to crush a car with such a big history :o

JOB
23-01-2012, 19:28
Surely it wud be a sin to crush a car with such a big history :o

Can we at least ask that they save the roll cage.

ryan-rallyvideos
23-01-2012, 19:29
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=166418&page=4


Seems Mr Philippe doesnt like been told any of his so called "REAL" cars are FAKES!!

colm8484
23-01-2012, 19:30
Can we at least ask that they save the roll cage.


:laugh::laugh:

Steve White
23-01-2012, 19:41
Well if his past behavior is anything to go by, it looks like at least one person will end up getting threatened now! :laugh:

JOB
23-01-2012, 19:43
Well if his past behavior is anything to go by, it looks like at least one person will end up getting threatened now! :laugh:

A letter from Santas solicitors I fear.

colm8484
23-01-2012, 20:03
The car that he has for sale must actually have a bit of history??
It does seem to be the car that rallied out foreign,so wonder IF its not the GXI reg I wonder what reg it was? Its on foreign plates on any of the videos..

Art McCarrick
23-01-2012, 20:13
Here's the killer, he even posted in the "Introduce yourself (aka KEEPIN' IT REAL AND TRUE!)" thread, post #759

https://www.rallyforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2981&page=31

peespeed
23-01-2012, 20:13
can someone confirm the body number in the prodrive invoice on this link please??? just checking something on a BMW website

http://rallycarsforsale.net/clas/index.php?ct=fsrc&md=details&id=60279

Scubbay
23-01-2012, 20:24
a hpi check on the gxi reg will produce its registration history and transfers. Has anyone done this? Might shed some light on how many cars it was registered on.

DavidN
23-01-2012, 20:28
Here we are, thank you for your confirmation that the car have been reshell, now I understand why photos are not available.
It s your opinion that the car keep it s original identity, I disagree, because a reshell car is not more original. And you see that I stay polite which is not the case of the magority of the people here, but the fews clowns who insult me are not the silent magority who agree with me.


I never said the car had been reshelled, I dont know anyone involved in this and only know the car from watching it on the stages. I just pointed out that in law if it had it is still the car it was

peespeed
23-01-2012, 20:31
YOU STILL NOT GET IT, GXI 9427 is BMW 316 from 1985, THE REG Number was transfering on 2 or 3 differents cars. Believe what you want, and say Hello to Elvis


so if GXI 9427 is a 316 BMW why have you got that reg number on a car and claiming that it is an M3. If as you say Mr Cronin is telling lies then so are you as you are falsely advertising a car for sale

caseyrallysport
23-01-2012, 20:34
It would appear that this is not the first time that this particular "gentleman" has tried to sell a famous car in questionable circumstances. He obviously is quite clever, extremely persuasive and has a neck like a jockey’s nether regions.
From what I have observed from replies to various emails directly to him and his post on here, he is extremely eager to see Denis Cronin’s (obviously original) logbook, chassis plate and any other information that verifies that the car in Denis's possession is the original. This is for one reason and one reason only; he needs them to produce copies.
He knows full well how respected this car is here and he knows full well that there are plenty of photos of the car in circulation over here. All he is doing, is winding us all up in the hope that someone who has photos of the chassis plate etc will post them to shut him up....then he will be in business as he has a Prodrive shell (I know it's a hen house but it is a Prodrive shell).
Ignore this con-man; at the moment he has a very tired 3 series BMW that may have a link to a Prodrive history. By engaging with, being wound up by him and giving him the full facts, we could inadvertently will give him the info he needs to create a proper clone of GXI9427.
Mods please watch this one closely.

john o malley
23-01-2012, 21:33
lol

http://rallycarsforsale.net/clas/index.php?ct=fsrca&md=details&id=60276

Olczyk Philippe
23-01-2012, 21:40
I only want to see the MATTER Plate but of course and none of you never see one and don t known where is this plate, it s like speaking chinese to you, then I fully understand that without knowning the correct facts, you try to defend the Irish flag. I don t ask anything , except to see the Matter plate, but it will never happen , NEVER and you can continue to badmouth me and insult me, the small difference between me and you is that I m polite and publish period facts when you only post personnal opinion base of little knowledge.
If you knew what I known, if you had my Prodrive database, if you had my knowledge, you will speak differently, but it s not the case, then I fully accept that you have a differents papers.
If you believe that GXI9427 was a BMW M3 with BMW Chassis Number M3 and that the papers correspond to a V5 and REG Number, you are right to believe that GXI 9427 can claims all the history, because with you knownledge, you are right to believe this even if you are wrong in reality.
Now, if you known like me (and other expert) that Prodrive had only a fews REG Number from 316, 318 or 323, and transfert thses REG Number on differents cars for theirs rallyes, you will have a different opinion and you will be right.

To value your opinion, I need to understand your knownledge, which is very low concerning this case, I don t blame you, If I had your knownledge, I will may be had the same opinion as you, even if I will be very open to news perspectives.

Then try to see a real Prodrive, ( chassis 017 by exemple ) who is in Belgium or chassis 036 who is at Prodrive and search the Matter plate, then call Matter in France ( I known it will cost you a few £ but knownledge is not free) then you will start to understand what I try to say.
Still I repeat that Cronin is unhappy because I explain the truth about his papers and Matter plate, if you was Cronin and if you was right, yoy don t think that it will be easy for him to call Matter and get a confirmation of the construction of the car. WHY HE DON T DO IT ??????........ I m sure that you can imagine the answer, Where is Cronin ? He is a ghost as he have small fans who fight for him but theses fans have been put in a big lie and nobody will never call Matter, it s more easy to insult me. Don t worry, you are not the first one, as a author, every time that I put the light on manipulations of history, I ve been attack or insulted. THe insults are their only was to respond to me as they cannot respond with true facts. Gentleman Good Evening

JOB
23-01-2012, 21:52
I also fully accept that with little education, you cannot share opinion or discussion without talking badly or insulting. If you had my education, you will have learn that we can have differents opinions based on personnal knownledge,

To value your opinion, I need to understand your knownledge, which is very low concerning this case, I don t blame you, If I had your knownledge, I will may be had the same opinion as you, even if I will be very open to news perspectives.



Philippe with an attitude like that I feel very tempted to cross you off my Christmas card list.

Must be really difficult to write a book about M3's without access to the most famous m3 of them all

909
23-01-2012, 21:53
i have to agree with JOB this is free entertainment.....and for Olczyc here is a little information for you since your into your knowledge and facts.........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusional_disorder

John Daly
23-01-2012, 22:00
gxi 9427 was a prodrive car and in 1987 was driven by billy coleman and bernard beguin and in 1988 by patrick snijers. prodrive then sold it to bertie fisher and it has remained in ireland since. FACT

john o malley
23-01-2012, 22:00
Philippe with an attitude like that I feel very tempted to cross you off my Christmas card list.

Must be really difficult to write a book about M3's without access to the most famous m3 of them all

with an attitude like that I feel very tempted to cross the pond and make sure he doesnt see another christmas..!

this guy thinks he is a god anyway

PIA 7878
23-01-2012, 22:09
Newsflash........... I've good news for olczyk philippe, i've just spoken to a man who might be interested in buying your bmw, his name is hammond lane.

Johnny Baird
23-01-2012, 22:10
If you knew what I known, if you had my Prodrive database .

Philippe could you get a Prodrive employee that worked on your car to authenticate it ?? . Then it would stop rumours to who has the right car or the wrong car .

Clan
23-01-2012, 22:16
Olczyk, your knowledge on the Prodrive M3 is basic to say the least and mainly gleaned from other people or websites. I have put many questions to you which you have not answered mainly because you do not know the answers. As you claim to have a Prodrive data base please share it with them as they don't have one. You keep attacking Cronin claiming his car is not real, yet he has full documentation for the car, full pictorial history of the car since 1987 is available for anyone to see. Your facts on the car are incorrect yet you persist and again attack Cronin. I cannot work this out, why attack Cronin surely if you think your car is real you will have Prodrive prove it's real,as at the moment the only thing you are doing is accusing Cronin of buying a fake car sold by Prodrive with full documentation, the same documentation you do not have with your car.

It's not up to Cronin to prove his car is correct, and it's not up to you to prove it isn't. You need to bring this up with Prodrive, but from what I hear you will not get much change from them. What I said about UK Police lifting your car is real and true, so be careful if advertising it at another UK auction as it will not be there long.

JOB
23-01-2012, 22:17
Newsflash........... I've good news for olczyk philippe, i've just spoken to a man who might be interested in buying your bmw, his name is hammond lane.

Is that the famous Mr Lane that has a very large collection of older cars and other historical metal objects ?

PIA 7878
23-01-2012, 22:21
Is that the famous Mr Lane that has a very large collection of older cars and other historical metal objects ?
THATS HIM JAMES... I'M SURE PHILIPPE'S BMW WOULD LOOK WELL ON THE BACK OF ONE OF MR LANE'S TRUCKS :laugh:

mk1mexico
23-01-2012, 22:22
I think this lad should be barred from this site, he's a twit. Was a good laugh for a while but its getting boring and dangerous now. He's so wrapped up in his own lies he doesnt seem to know which way is up anymore.

mk1mexico
23-01-2012, 22:23
Newsflash........... I've good news for olczyk philippe, i've just spoken to a man who might be interested in buying your bmw, his name is hammond lane.

F eckin yoke isnt good enough for them even!

Dean P Cullen
23-01-2012, 22:28
Lads don't rise to it its exactly what he wants!

Mark Lowe
23-01-2012, 22:35
I am selling GVX 489T the shell before the one that was swapped with the other then into the narrow arched and back over to a mint one that has been dry stored

when prodrive sold the car Phillipe to Nabil Karam did it have a registration plate on it?
I wouldnt think it was as the plate and logbook will have went on another shell like said in other posts.

The shell you claim is the TDC winner will have had a local plate put on it in Karam's country. if so why isn't is still registered with that plate? and where is that plate now?

You know me and I know of you as you accused me of being mental when you where challenged by the 6R4 fans over the plate that Lawrence Gibson has on his car after prodrive took the plate off the car they sold to the rallycross guy